EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:49 pm

huntabsarokee , probably overlooked here is the auger on the EFM. That probably has more to do with the additional expense than anything. Great feature though because the feed is ground level. The amount of coal you can put on top of it is only limited by the limitations of where you put the furnace. For example if you had a 12 foot basement you can build a bin as a hopper that can hold roughly 10 tons of coal and never have to shovel a single piece. I don't have a EFM but a Van-Wert which is practically identical (wish i had a 12 foot basement too), our hopper is a 55 gallon drum right in the coal bin. Bottom line is it will save you lot of work especially if you set it up right. The hopper on the Keystokers are chest high and attached to the furnace.

If the additional expense for that is not worth it for you so be it, everyone has their own needs and budget.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:54 pm

Freddy wrote:It hasn't happened to EFM in the last 57 yrs, so I figure they're doing something right. :)


That reference was to the design, the company I believe has been in existence since 1922 . ;)
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:23 pm

We have an opening at efm. I wish JC lived closer.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: coal berner On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:50 pm

Freddy wrote:There's nothing to stop anyone from building the smallest, strongest, cheapest, most efficient coal boiler on Earth. Feel free! I'm sure if anyone builds a boiler that is truly better, yet cheaper, you'd eventually see EMF, Axeman Anderson, AHS, Keystoker go out of business. It hasn't happened to EFM in the last 57 yrs, so I figure they're doing something right. :)
I don't any of them going any where Remember they all make other Fuel boiler /Furnace Gas Oil Electric Wood Not Just coal The big Reason why Keystoker can sell there Product cheaper then other's is they make 95% of there product in house the only things they don't make is the raw steel The motor's & blower fans Even The gear boxes are Machined there They get the raw casting and Machined them out in House So that will keep the cost down other's like EFM Have sub contractors doing the work so it cost more in the long Run if they would cut the middle man out and Make the Parts in house in would be cheaper A A does the same for most of there Parts Also with Keystoker they have a big line of boilers Stoker stove & Hand fed stove's They can cover a bigger Range of People needs they make over 38 different models Keystoker Never got away from coal units They Remember what made them and Never forgot or left the Anthracite market unlike other's who left it slip buy them and went on to Push oil and other fuel burning units These companies
need to wake back up and start to Push Anthracite units and Redesign and Make New Models to keep up with the changing world demand on fuel

Let's see EFM has been in business since 1922 some of There Patents go back to 1908
Axeman Anderson since 1944
Keystoker since 1946
Last edited by coal berner on Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: coal berner On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:27 pm

stoker-man wrote:We have an opening at efm. I wish JC lived closer.

51 Miles is not that far what time do I start on Monday morning :lol:
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: Coal Guzzler On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:39 pm

I have a used oil boiler to sell! I made the plunge. I just bought an EFM 520. Thanks to all for your help making the decision. The auger feed and reputation made the difference. I bought a new boiler with a used cover and a totally rebuilt (all new except blower cover) stoker unit from a great guy (who also sells me my coal) in Schwenksville, PA. He had a used one for sale but the price difference only amounted to about $1000. I plan to eventually put in the oil burner (only to be used when on vacation) so my 14 year old Peerless boiler will have no more use for me. Everyone talks about the extra cost of EFM but it really didn't amount to much more. I called other EFM dealers and this guy is way lower. I paid $6680 plus $220 for delivery (well worth the 1200 lbs). I must put a plug in for him. He's selling all new from the factory for $7700. Now I have all summer to plan the hydronic system and coal bin. Anyone know a someone who needs a good 14 year old Peerless 105,000 BTU/hr oil boiler?

Gene
Coal Guzzler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Saey Stove/EFM Boiler
Stove/Furnace Model: Hannover Stove/DF 520

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:03 pm

Anyone know a someone who needs a good 14 year old Peerless 105,000 BTU/hr oil boiler?


Maybe an Edsel dealer. :P

Were the quoted prices with or without tax?
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: EnergyManager On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:06 pm

I personally installed both an EFM 350 (1982) (Parent’s house) and Axeman Anderson 130 (1984) (Sister’s House) in the Minersville PA area. By far I loved the EFM, however the Axeman Anderson is a workhorse it burns any size coal you put in it, rice, pea, buckwheat. Or pick the coal off the rock banks. But it is not suited for a small house. Needs to run, great for a bigger building.

The EFM 350 never gave us much problems and it was sized perfect for today’s better insulated homes. We easily heated a 3000 sq feet 3 zone house.

EFM design is more expense to build but not a three thousand differential more like $1000 because of the S20 stoker mechanism. When Van-wert was in business their units were similar to EFM and they were much cheaper.

And lets remember something EFM is a business and regardless what we wish EFM's bread and butter is not the EFM Coal stokers. So what EFM does is market segmenting, there are people out there who will pay the premium for an EFM 520. EFM is happy to make coal boilers for that profit, this way they can say they still make a coal boiler. They make a good profit per unit and pay more attention to EFM's real business that pays their bills. Yes “OIL UNITS” So wake up and smell the roses..

Maybe EFM should franchise their EFM Coal units to Keystoker and take a fixed franchise commission for each EFM unit. This way they would know what they will receive per unit in profit and Keystoker can work on offering the smaller EFM models and reducing unit cost.


http://www.keystoker.com/coaloilboilers.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

Keystoker Coal Boiler can be purchased directly from them at the factory
model KAA-2 $3770 76,000 btu/hr includes hot water coil
model KA-6 $4563 122,000btu/hr btu/hr includes hot water coil
They don’t make model KA- 4 anymore


http://www.harmanstoves.com/specifications.asp?id=6
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

Harman VF3000 Verti-Flow Stoker Boiler
$4504 plus hot water coil $208 95,000 btu/hr
All units plus sales tax (Some one should pass a bill in the Pennsylvania if you going to burn Coal and save on Oil imports them the unit are exempt from sales tax…)
EnergyManager
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: Coal Guzzler On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:09 pm

Those prices were without taxes. He has one used 520 left at $5650 (all rebuilt).
Coal Guzzler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Saey Stove/EFM Boiler
Stove/Furnace Model: Hannover Stove/DF 520

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:16 pm

EFM Have sub contractors doing the work


Only one, for the machining only.

efm was a real powerhouse in its day. Besides stokers and oil, gas, and electric boilers, they made air conditioners, many military parts, including bombs. I have one in the shop, empty, of course. Keystone air compressors, our own oil burners and foundary. Everything was made in-house. The waste oil boiler part of the business is really busy these days.

We also have other products to market, which I don't even mention on this forum.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: EnergyManager On: Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:29 pm

stoker-man
efm was a real powerhouse in its day. Besides stokers and oil, gas, and electric boilers, they made air conditioners, many military parts, including bombs. I have one in the shop, empty, of course. Keystone air compressors, our own oil burners and foundary. Everything was made in-house. The waste oil boiler part of the business is really busy these days.
As I said EFM is a business and no longer is it making Coal Boilers, what they depend on to stay in buisness. And I don't blame EFM, EFM must do what keeps them in business and makes them profitable. So spin off the coal units to someone who wants it has a core business and keep the name brand and charge a franchise unit price commission,
Last edited by EnergyManager on Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
EnergyManager
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: sterling40man On: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:42 am

EnergyManager,

I called Keystoker early May. They told me that I had to buy from a dealer. Maybe this has changed. I would've loved to cut out the middle man. Could've saved about $400 dollars. :mad3:

Bob
sterling40man
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker K6
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:48 am

Assuming you don't have a dealer close did you tell them that? It's my understanding they will sell to the general public if there is no dealer in the vicinity. Many manufacturers won't even do that, kinda pointless to have dealerships if someone can go right to factory to get it.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: Lumberjack On: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:07 am

A normal part of a dealership agreement is a non-competition clause making the dealer the exclusive source for a product within thier territory.
Lumberjack
 

Re: EFM, Keystoker, or AHS

PostBy: sterling40man On: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:21 am

Richard,

I have a dealer about 15 miles from me. I suppose that's why. Oh well. What cha gonna do.
sterling40man
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker K6
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Visit Lehigh Anthracite