Coal Bin Construction

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Sun. Jun. 22, 2008 7:40 pm

I'm new to coal, have a Harman DVC-550 in the garage waiting to go. In the meantime I got busy on the bin. I had a goal of having a chute from the bin into my garage where I'd fill my buckets. The challenge was how to support 6K # of coal as the bin needed to be elevated to get over the garage foundation walls.

Short of siding and roofing material, it's good to go. Here it is:
**Broken Link(s) Removed**The "foundation" is 8x8x16 cinder block with 4x6 pressure treated timber on top placed at 12" centers. The floor is trex (got a great deal on a cart full of damaged trex at lowes). The rest is standard construction principles. The roof is split and hinged. I'll have a 12 x 12 chute pass through the garage wall with a guillotine door to stop the flow.

Im considering cutting in a access door on the outside to move coal towards the chute as the pile shrinks.....


 
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Freddy
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Post by Freddy » Sun. Jun. 22, 2008 7:54 pm

You're smart to get going early. Snow will be here before we know it. Geeze, Gosh! You could put two nuclear power plants on those floor beams! Yowza! I think the weak link might be the cement block on the ground. The weight will want to settle them into the Earth. Is it 4 by 8 by 5'? That size would hold four ton. How will it be loaded?

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Sun. Jun. 22, 2008 8:52 pm

Yep, want to get everyting ready for this winter season and yep that floor could support a tank but I tend to over engineer a lot. I was also thinking about the block being an issue. I have them all laying on top of 3" block on the flat and will let the whole thing settle before I commit to the chute into the garage.

It's 4 x 4 x 8, 3 ton I was told ....

thx

 
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Post by Freddy » Sun. Jun. 22, 2008 11:07 pm

Yup, 3.2 ton by the math. I see now you said 6,000 pounds... I read it as 6 ton. Duh! If the row of block away from the building holds 3,000 pounds, that'll be 566 pounds per square foot. If the Earth good & firm?

 
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Post by Richard S. » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 3:59 am

Couple of construction tips, the blocks next to the house should have been flipped on the other side. They lose much of their strength because you're stressing the part where they meet as a T, there's nothing to prevent sideways movement. On a side note this how a lot people end up dieing working on cars using cinder blocks for support, if the weight shifts the blocks snap off at the T and collapse . Not that much of concern for your application.

If you didn't add a good layer gravel under the blocks there is very good chance they are going to sink over time even well after you get the coal in but you have a whole couurse there so it may not be that much of problem.
ablumny wrote:Im considering cutting in a access door on the outside to move coal towards the chute as the pile shrinks.....
I wouldn't be worried about that as long as you have access from the inside, you're just adding more work to the build and afterwards. Only takes a few seconds to walk in and get what you need. ;)

 
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Post by syncmaster » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 7:51 am

I haven't built a coal bin YET but from alot of reading on this forum I believe you are supposed to put the plywood walls on the inside of the 2x4 walls because of the coal weight.
Did you use 3" screws to fasten the plywood walls?
I would guess you might also need washers on those screws.

I like the way your bin looks but I don't know how it will hold up under the pressure from the coal pushing out on those walls.

 
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Post by Richard S. » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 8:31 am

Missed that, the plywood should be on the inside but assuming enough screws it should be fine.


 
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Post by syncmaster » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 8:54 am

The coal is usually delivered wet and with the top closed and the sun cooking the coal it will be like a sauna in the coal bin.
this might make the plywood walls soft and the screw heads slip through the plywood.

since you don't have the coal in it yet it would be easy to line the inside plywood walls with tar paper or house wrap to keep the plywood from getting wet and soft.

 
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Post by Yanche » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 9:47 am

I think you will have a problem with it sinking in the ground, or at least an uneven tilt over time. Backfill around a house foundation isn't usually compacted and it takes decades to finally stabilize. Other than that an nice conservative design.

 
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Post by ablumny » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 2:54 pm

Freddy wrote:Yup, 3.2 ton by the math. I see now you said 6,000 pounds... I read it as 6 ton. Duh! If the row of block away from the building holds 3,000 pounds, that'll be 566 pounds per square foot. If the Earth good & firm?
I dug down past the grass/top soil layer. I wouldnt say the ground is as solid as rock but it put up a good fight when I had to get these blocks level. I'm regretting not spending more time on a better base!

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 2:56 pm

Richard S. wrote:Couple of construction tips, the blocks next to the house should have been flipped on the other side. They lose much of their strength because you're stressing the part where they meet as a T, there's nothing to prevent sideways movement. On a side note this how a lot people end up dieing working on cars using cinder blocks for support, if the weight shifts the blocks snap off at the T and collapse . Not that much of concern for your application.

If you didn't add a good layer gravel under the blocks there is very good chance they are going to sink over time even well after you get the coal in but you have a whole couurse there so it may not be that much of problem.
ablumny wrote:Im considering cutting in a access door on the outside to move coal towards the chute as the pile shrinks.....
I wouldn't be worried about that as long as you have access from the inside, you're just adding more work to the build and afterwards. Only takes a few seconds to walk in and get what you need. ;)
Agreed (about the orientation of the back row), however I also thought that without base material, the smaller area of that side of the block would sink more so than the full flat side I chose. Roller the dice on that one. thx

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 2:59 pm

syncmaster wrote:I haven't built a coal bin YET but from alot of reading on this forum I believe you are supposed to put the plywood walls on the inside of the 2x4 walls because of the coal weight.
Did you use 3" screws to fasten the plywood walls?
I would guess you might also need washers on those screws.

I like the way your bin looks but I don't know how it will hold up under the pressure from the coal pushing out on those walls.
Yep, read that as well, plywood on the inside. As this is a visable unit in a traffic area of the yard, I needed it to look like something other than a construction site (keeping the wife happy). I used 2.5" exterior screws being aware not to sink them to the point that they break the front layer. I could still line the inside if I feel it'll be an issue. Thanks

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 3:00 pm

syncmaster wrote:The coal is usually delivered wet and with the top closed and the sun cooking the coal it will be like a sauna in the coal bin.
this might make the plywood walls soft and the screw heads slip through the plywood.

since you don't have the coal in it yet it would be easy to line the inside plywood walls with tar paper or house wrap to keep the plywood from getting wet and soft.
Good thought. I was actually thinking of using Dry Lock on the inside for this very reason..... thx

 
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ablumny
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Post by ablumny » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 3:01 pm

Yanche wrote:I think you will have a problem with it sinking in the ground, or at least an uneven tilt over time. Backfill around a house foundation isn't usually compacted and it takes decades to finally stabilize. Other than that an nice conservative design.
Thx. As I noted on other responses, I agree, the weak link is the block foundation...

 
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Post by syncmaster » Mon. Jun. 23, 2008 4:34 pm

ablumny wrote: I needed it to look like something other than a construction site (keeping the wife happy).
Yes, keeping the wife happy is very important !

As my wife always says: "If you have a happy wife you'll have a happy life ! "


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