SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: ken On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:51 am

Shotgun preteen vs. illegal alien Home Invaders:

Butte , Montana November 5, 2007

Two illegal aliens, Raphael Resides, 23, and Enrico Garza, 26, probably believed they would easily overpower home-alone 11 year old Patricia Harrington after her father had left their two-story home.

It seems the two crooks never learned two things: they were in Montana and Patricia had been a clay shooting champion since she was nine.

Patricia was in her upstairs room when the two men broke through the front door of the house. She quickly ran to her father's room and grabbed his 12 gauge Mossberg 500 shotgun.

Resides was the first to get up to the second floor only to be the first to catch a near point blank blast of buckshot from the 11-year-old's knee crouch aim. He suffered fatal wounds to his abdomen and genitals.

When Garza ran to the foot of the stairs, he took a blast to the left shoulder and staggered out into the street where he bled to death before medical help could arrive.

It was found out later that Resides was armed with a stolen 45 caliber handgun he took from another home invasion robbery. That victim, 50-year-old David Burien, was not so lucky. He died from stab wounds to the chest.

Ever wonder why good stuff never makes NBC, CBS, PBS, MSNBC, CNN, or ABC news........an 11 year old girl, properly trained, defended her home, and herself......against two murderous, illegal immigrants.......and she wins, she is still alive.

Now that is Gun Control !
ken
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker - Rice Coal
Stove/Furnace Model: 75K - Bay Window - Direct Vent

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: stoker-man On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:44 am

the ultimate armed thug of history is government gone awry, and our government and others aren't going away. Government must fear the people, it must remain subservient to the people. This is ensured, in the final measure, by an armed citizenry.


Amen to that. That's why the 2nd amendment was written.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:32 am

For those that may have missed it, I was being a little facetious when I mentioned the limitations I would favor on gun possession. That being said, I will speak to the natural tendency for law enforcement types, in general, to favor limiting access to firearms:
Most law officers, at least in this country, receive extensive training in the use, & more importantly, the non-use of firearms that cannot be duplicated in a 2 hour, afternoon class that many states require for handgun licensing. (many localities require no training at all ) We (law officers) live with guns, sleep with them & potentially face them on the streets every day, so naturally have a different attitude towards them than does the average citizen, many of whom consider them little more than another "toy" to occasionally play with.
Being able to hit a paper target & clean your weapon tends to be the main purpose of most civilian firearms training, with just a passing "mention" towards gun safety..........& it just is not enough. I would favor a much more stringent requirement for licensing that would reverse the emphasis of most firearms courses to deal with gun safety first & foremost. (practical exercises like the "shoot, don't shoot" exercises Gun Thread that most law enforcement goes through & emphasis on locking up (or hiding well) your firearms so that they will not be stolen by kids or thieves......I have a 12 gauge shotgun in my house & a 9mm handgun in my car, both easily accessible (& loaded) but hidden so well that you would have to dismantle the house or car to find them ) Getting back to license training, my thinking of this training is this: We (society) would never think of licensing anyone to drive a motor vehicle without first taking a fairly extensive driver-training course (including on the road ), & then demonstrating their driving proficiency/safety in front of a qualified officer. Why not do the same for firearms licensing?
Of course it would add some expense to obtaining a license, but so does driver training.

I'm sure everyone here will agree with all I have just said, so I'll look forward to all the agreeing responses! :lol:
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000


Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:47 am

Devil5052 wrote:We (society) would never think of licensing anyone to drive a motor vehicle without first taking a fairly extensive driver-training course, & then demonstrating their driving proficiency/safety in front of a qualified officer.


Bad example, the average citizen is not expected to be able to drive like Nascar driver or a professional driver. You can and do have people on the road that are very poor drivers under any circumstances whether it's because of poor physical skills or simply poor judgment.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: gambler On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:00 am

Yes, leave the guns up to the trained professionals. Like this DEA agent.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZlcbJwfP4


Or this cop


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n2VLmqCXL0
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:07 am

Richard S. wrote:Bad example, the average citizen is not expected to be able to drive like Nascar driver or a professional driver. You can and do have people on the road that are very poor drivers under any circumstances whether it's because of poor physical skills or simply poor judgment.


It is early & I am just finishing my first cup of coffee Richard, so it was the first example I came up with :D .....but....I don't think it was all that bad. Driving tests are designed to prove that you have the basic skills & knowledge to safely operate a dangerous device (motor vehicle) in our crowded society. Similarly, I think some kind of practical test is warranted to demonstrate your knowledge & safety in re firearms. The extent of the training & test is debatable, but the need for it is not, imo.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:12 am

[quote="gambler"]Yes, leave the guns up to the trained professionals. Like this DEA agent.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IZlcbJwfP4


Oh man!! I assume that was a deliberate part of the DEA Agent's presentation.... (with blanks) I sure hope so!!
(if not, I'll bet he has trouble finding other agents who'll ride with him.....I sure wouldn't!! :lol: .....seriously, he would/should have been fired the instant he got back to the office!!)

Edit: After re-watching the video, I'm convinced that it was a deliberate part of his presentation just by the lack of reaction from the teachers/school officials in the room who appear fore-warned as to what was going to happen. Otherwise, I would assume they would have immediately stopped his presentation. What a great attention grabber though!
(I'll see if I can contact some friends at DEA headquarters to see if they have ever authorized such "accidental" discharges as part of the public school presentations DEA regularly performs as a public service)
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: stoker-man On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:53 am

I would favor total elimanation of weapons, worldwide. That would take a supernatural power to accomplish, since mankind is prone to doing bad. Didn't the first murder occur just outside the Garden of Eden? (Iraq)

Until then, we need to protect ourselves, by any means, from those who would harm us.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:02 am






This female officer should have been disarmed (& probably was) fired at the scene!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:22 am

Blanks under the right circumstances can be just as dangerous as the real thing especially when i close proximity. If you put a gun to someones head with a blank and pull the trigger they are going to be either dead or have some serious trauma. FYI that really happened.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:39 am

Richard S. wrote:Blanks under the right circumstances can be just as dangerous as the real thing especially when i close proximity. If you put a gun to someones head with a blank and pull the trigger they are going to be either dead or have some serious trauma. FYI that really happened


You are quite right Richard, if held in very close proximity to a target. There are very safe ones however, that seal in the gunpowder in such a way that they discharge very little out of the barrel & typically have a lighter load. (Just designed to make a loud "Bang") If you look at the video again, you will see that the agent was very careful to aim the barrel at the floor. (His apparent "injury" may have just been a little theatrics to help make his point)
I have never seen that video & am only "assuming" it was a deliberate part of his presentation. I'll try to find out & report back.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:42 am

Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:53 am

[quote="Richard S."]That's been circulating for a few years now, http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/ ... shoot-suit

I am amazed..... & a little embarrassed! :o ...I have never seen that video & can't imagine that the agent was allowed to keep his job!! (he should have been fired that day!)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: coal berner On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:09 pm

stoker-man wrote:Coalberner, I renewed my license around 2005. I went to the courthouse in Allentown. No problem. I always go in a month early or so and have never let it lapse. Been licensed since the first year. You say '89. I had forgotten.

That is the best way to do it you will never have a wait for it However if it does runout before you get it renewed they where giving you a 60 day extension on your old one until you got the new one I got my first one when I was 18 under
the old law before 89 you could get one in PA when you turned 18 It was a open carry license you had to take a three day
course your Police Dep gave the course then the Police chief issued them it was up to the Police chief in your area if you
got one or not around here it was not that hard Plus I aways held a FFL. anyway so it was pretty easy to get one
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: SECOND AMENDMENT UPHELD!

PostBy: stoker-man On: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:03 pm

Yes, I remember the local police chief having the authority and he wouldn't give any out. It was a big relief when the state legislature took that power away and made a permit grant mandatory unless they could show reason why you shouldn't have one.

When a new sheriff was elected in the '90s, he was a former state trooper who was requiring people to go to their doctor to get a release that they weren't mentally ill. A woman fought that requirement and the state told the sheriff to stop the harassment. After that, there was no problem at all.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove