Bad Dealers

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:32 am

LsFarm wrote:AH,, those 'conspiracy pills' just kicked in again I see... :D :lol:


Pills!!!!!.....I've moved up to downing conspiracy cookies!!! (fat free.....I might add)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:34 am

Just make sure they are oatmeal based cookies.. better for your cholesterol, and more fiber... with the fiber, maybe you can 'get rid of' the pill's effect quicker?? :lol: :D

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:25 pm

Hi guys,

I am the "Bad Dealer". I run a business that relies on a product to be sold. In order to keep my doors open I have to pay the mortgage on the building, the taxes, electricity etc. etc. I sell A-A, Alaska, EFM and Keystoker. Keystoker is out to March now for their boilers, so they are essentially done for the year. I am fortunate enough to have ordered 14 of these units for a Sept. delivery time frame, when I saw how quickly these units were selling ( I sold 4 in one day, I sold four last winter) I ordered 8 more, but they won't be in until Dec/Jan. I originally priced the units at $5,063, which covered our shipping and in store financing charges. A very fair price, far below the customary 40% margin on other products. As a matter of fact if I were to go with Keystoker pricing I would make more on a KA-6 than a KB-12 boiler, and the profit on a KA-6 is about $700, hardly worth the time that has to be spent with a customer getting them up to speed, or that night time service call when the customer screws something up. If I could get unlimited boilers, I would make my money on volume. However, I can only sell a total of 14 units for a September time frame installation. All of those units are now gone. When the creator of this thread called 3 weeks ago, I told him to act quickly, at the $5,063 price as I thought I could get more boilers, as demand was very high. He chose to wait 3 weeks before making his decision. In that time frame Keystoker was swamped with orders and is done for the year, so much so that Keystoker is running out of electricity (too many welders running) and is having to redo their electrical service.

I also sell Alaska stoves, they are currently experiencing a 5 week delay, and I can get all of those that I want. Alaska pricing is set up in a reasonable fashion, and I charge list plus shipping on those units. I would still recommend that if you are going to do any type of unit ORDER IT NOW so you do not get caught with your pants down like someone else did. I can get EFMs, but they had a $600 increase, and there will be another $600 increase on July 31st. If you want one for the fall, order it now. Axeman -Anderson just had a 7% increase due to steel costs, and they are running 3 months behind, order NOW if you want one for the fall, so you do not get caught with your pants down like someone else did. If you talk to your local dealer, and he says something to the effect that the demand is through the roof on this stuff, and that if you are serious about converting over, believe him, do not wait 3 weeks mulling over a decision that can be made in 2 seconds.... oil would have to be at $1.50 a gallon to equal anthracite.... it is a no brainer... for most people.

While I feel bad for this guy who waited too long, I still have to feed my family in these days of ever increasing pricing. I would rather sell 100 boilers at Keystoker pricing than 6 units at $7063, the other 8 were sold at $5063, but I cannot, nor can any other Keystoker dealer get 100 units.


Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA


Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

One other tid-bit. I just got done spending $5000 for a radio ad campaign, where I have to be able to sell x number of units to pay for the advertising, plus still make it worth my while. I cannot sell x number of units at a given price to make it worth my while and pay for the advertising. One other thing that struck me odd, is that this guy who complained is from Maine, I am from southern New Hampshire. Why is he going to Southern New Hampshire to buy a unit???? Probably because no one else has them. I will gladly sell him a unit in March of 2009 at $5063, and if he does not do the in store financing, then I will do it for $4763 (cost of unit plus $150 shipping). I can get them in March.
Last edited by Complete Heat on Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 4:36 pm

The bottom line for the whining customer is that they had the opportunity to purchase the boiler at $5000 and failed to make a timely decision.
Maybe they thought a better price could be had elsewhere who knows.
Early bird gets the worm.
Now market forces have changed the ability of the dealer to replenish his stock for the heating season. The dealer believes there are enough people willing to pay the extra $2000 to have a boiler for this heating season that he can sell the remaining stock before spring of 2009.
If the dealer is correct in his pricing decision they will stay in business.
If the dealer was wrong in their pricing decision the same market forces will punish them.
I prefer an open market system rather than a system that is highly regulated by the government.
If the pricing by any dealer is too high others will divert stock or create new stock to fill the pricing void.
This is just a case of too much demand for a very limited stock for a short duration.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:16 pm

Another thing, why bother whining about it? If you think the price is too high, move on. It bothers me that people have trouble dealing with the reality of a situation.

Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:50 pm

So the way I see it,, you sold all the KA6 boilers available for you to sell, and therefore knew you were out of business on that product for the rest of the season. You offered the few remaining boilers at a 'take it or leave it' price.. you could easily still have those boilers for sale.. With limited or no ability to restock, this pretty much puts you out of business till march... and the end of this next season..so you sold the remaining stock at a higher price..and they sold.. it's not like you were selling the last food in the county or water to a man dying of dehydration..

Nor did you take someone's money then tell them they had to pay more than the agreed upon price..

It's called a free-market...

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: 218Bee On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:24 pm

He who hesitates is lost.


although I prefer the Chenango version...

Ya snooze..ya loose.


I found a KA6 in late May, the dealer said that this was the last shipment before the price increase. With looming FO prices, it ain't rocket surgery to see a shortage of alt fuel appliances.
218Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: gregsmit On: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:50 pm

This thread really ticks me off.

As one of Mike's "early bird customers" who bought a KA6 earlier in the season at the original price I think it's only fair to let everyone know that Mike's company delivered on every commitment they've made. They've even notified me in advance when there was a delay in shipment because they were waiting on a component from Keystroker. Ironically, I think there were about 3 weeks between when I first spoke with Mike and when I placed my order, but since there had been no price change (early in the Spring) Mike had no issue meeting the original price he mentioned.

In fact, part of the reason I placed my order early was to beat the rush anyone could have seen coming given the increase in oil prices. To call him unethical paints the poster as someone who clearly doesn't understand how business gets done. It's one thing if Mike had tried changing the terms on an official quote ("e.g. quote valid for 30 days"), but this wasn't the case. What the unhappy individual from Maine would have received was a price for that day, not a legally binding quote for 30 days or equivalent.

Bottom line - CompleteHeat is highly recommended and anyone who has any questions can PM me directly.

Regards,

-Greg Smith
"Happy Complete Heat Customer"
Last edited by gregsmit on Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
gregsmit
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA6 direct vent

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:48 am

Greg, thank you for the testimonial for Complete Heat.. however, please refrain from name-calling,, this will keep the forum and this topic civil..

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:29 am

Morr88 wrote:Just wanted to let eveyone know that some of the stoker/stove dealers out there a going nuts with pricing. BUYER BEWARE. Take for instance the guy in Nashua New Hampshire who has marked his Keystoker Boiler up by $2000 becasue he gets his in September. For that much money you should wait until January when the other dealers can get boilers and pay for the oil. Plus this would teach the dealer that gouging like that is wrong. I was looking for a KA-6 that everyone is pricing at $4600 +/-, and the guy in NH is aksing $7063 for the same boiler. If you do business with this guy, I would think twice. He obviously has no morals. Everyone should also call Keystoker to get this guy removed from the early shipment list so the reputable dealers can get these boilers. I am done. Have a great day. I need to order my boiler.



I smell a 1 post troll. Morr88 more than likely goes by another username on this board also.
cArNaGe
 

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: gregsmit On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:30 am

Thanks for the feeback Greg L. My apologies. I've edited the post to be more civil.

Too much beer and BBQ last night ;)

Regards,

-Greg Smith
gregsmit
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA6 direct vent

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: stoker-man On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:26 am

We had a man come in the other week to see if he could be a dealer for efm stokers. He was a Keystoker dealer, but said he couldn't get any more units this year to sell. He needed another line of equipment to sell if he wanted to keep eating.

So, what does a dealer do if the supply stops, but the expenses continue? I have to side with Complete Heat's reasoning.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: RICHARD2 On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:39 am

Complete Heat wrote: One other thing that struck me odd, is that this guy who complained is from Maine, I am from southern New Hampshire. Why is he going to Southern New Hampshire to buy a unit???? Probably because no one else has them.


PRO

A woman went into the butcher shop and asked, "How much is your chopped meat?"
"3.98 a pound", said the butcher.
"$3.98 !, the butcher shop three blocks from here had it for $1.98 a pound."
"That's a good price, go buy it there."
"I can't, he's all sold out."
"Well, if I didn't have any, it would only be $1.00 a pound."

CON

Since in years past, a smaller profit per unit on the sale of far fewer boilers and stoves, was sufficient to meet the costs of doing business, Why is it now necessary to more than double the profit per unit, on sales of three times as many units?

A '$5,000 advertising campaign' for a product that has a "no brainer" rising demand curve?

I will gladly sell him a unit in March of 2009 at $5063, and if he does not do the in store financing, then I will do it for $4763 (cost of unit plus $150 shipping). I can get them in March.


Is it known that there will be a 25% reduction in the price of steel before March 2009? Will all the 'costs of doing business' be lower in 2009? Aren't those the two Reasons given for the current price increase?
RICHARD2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KA2

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:11 pm

It is a "no brainer" decision to buy one of the units, but the advertising campaign is to raise awareness about these types of units. 90% of the people have never heard of stoker units, and most think that it is some type of new technology. I will continue the advertising campaign to continue sales of other brands, such as Alaska, EFM and Axeman-Anderson. I went into business to make money, and in the past years if it weren't for the chimney cleaning side of the operation, then I wouldn't be here now. If I am to stick around into the future to serve past and future customers then I will charge a FAIR market price for the product. $7000 for a product that will save you $6000 a year is a cheap price to pay. If I were selling stocks with those kinds of returns I would be a billionaire overnight.

Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA