Bad Dealers

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: efo141 On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:46 pm

Complete Heat wrote:Hi guys,

I am the "Bad Dealer". I run a business that relies on a product to be sold. In order to keep my doors open I have to pay the mortgage on the building, the taxes, electricity etc. etc. I sell A-A, Alaska, EFM and Keystoker. Keystoker is out to March now for their boilers, so they are essentially done for the year. I am fortunate enough to have ordered 14 of these units for a Sept. delivery time frame, when I saw how quickly these units were selling ( I sold 4 in one day, I sold four last winter) I ordered 8 more, but they won't be in until Dec/Jan. I originally priced the units at $5,063, which covered our shipping and in store financing charges. A very fair price, far below the customary 40% margin on other products. As a matter of fact if I were to go with Keystoker pricing I would make more on a KA-6 than a KB-12 boiler, and the profit on a KA-6 is about $700, hardly worth the time that has to be spent with a customer getting them up to speed, or that night time service call when the customer screws something up. If I could get unlimited boilers, I would make my money on volume. However, I can only sell a total of 14 units for a September time frame installation. All of those units are now gone. When the creator of this thread called 3 weeks ago, I told him to act quickly, at the $5,063 price as I thought I could get more boilers, as demand was very high. He chose to wait 3 weeks before making his decision. In that time frame Keystoker was swamped with orders and is done for the year, so much so that Keystoker is running out of electricity (too many welders running) and is having to redo their electrical service.

I also sell Alaska stoves, they are currently experiencing a 5 week delay, and I can get all of those that I want. Alaska pricing is set up in a reasonable fashion, and I charge list plus shipping on those units. I would still recommend that if you are going to do any type of unit ORDER IT NOW so you do not get caught with your pants down like someone else did. I can get EFMs, but they had a $600 increase, and there will be another $600 increase on July 31st. If you want one for the fall, order it now. Axeman -Anderson just had a 7% increase due to steel costs, and they are running 3 months behind, order NOW if you want one for the fall, so you do not get caught with your pants down like someone else did. If you talk to your local dealer, and he says something to the effect that the demand is through the roof on this stuff, and that if you are serious about converting over, believe him, do not wait 3 weeks mulling over a decision that can be made in 2 seconds.... oil would have to be at $1.50 a gallon to equal anthracite.... it is a no brainer... for most people.

While I feel bad for this guy who waited too long, I still have to feed my family in these days of ever increasing pricing. I would rather sell 100 boilers at Keystoker pricing than 6 units at $7063, the other 8 were sold at $5063, but I cannot, nor can any other Keystoker dealer get 100 units.


Do you do that night service call free? I hope the dealer i bought my Keystoker from treats me that well.
Stove/Furnace Make: New Yorker/Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: WC90-----/Kaa-2

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:11 pm

It's called business!. That's how it works. Supply and demand. Anyone who is whining now about increased boiler prices should have had more foresight. I bought my boiler in 2003 when oil prices shot up to .99. It's still a good deal! Your pay back period will be alittle longer but after that, it's all gravy! For those who are slower to sense these trends, folks here are also building outside coal bunkers to store bulk coal that will last them several seasons. ;)
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1981 EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: anthracite/rice coal

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: sharkman8810 On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:10 pm

I can understand the dealers line of reasoning. Also if you don't like the price or service go somewhere else. I shopped around, and i think i ended up buying from a better dealer at a better price that i was going to originally because i didnt care for the leave a message and i will get back to you, and he did, in 6 days. The guy i bought from answered the phone, questions, and had the best prices so he got the sale. Let the free market dictate who is good and bad.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: efo141 On: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:28 pm

I ordered my kaa2 on 6-18-08 My dealer did not jump on the supply and demand band wagon 3650+131 freight+219 tax= 4000 that was less than 3 weeks ago. The price of the K6 was 4500+ less than 4600.Looks to me like he is going to sell about 16 more than he did last year, at a higher profit. I called a coal dealer today in NY about his bagged rice. 500 a ton 10 a 40lb bag Is that just business? I would call it something else.
Stove/Furnace Make: New Yorker/Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: WC90-----/Kaa-2

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:35 am

Congratulations on your purchase and at a good price to boot.
Let everyone here know who this dealer is and he will be rewarded with plenty of business.
I know people will travel a fair distance for a stove, a dealer on the Cape was getting calls from out of state.
Bagged rice coal @$500/ton might be good to someone who will not shop around.
Nobody forced you to purchase from the dealer.
You are free to drive to PA and pickup all the coal you want at the breakers for less than $200 ton, buy 24 tons and have it trucked to your house or buy from another, more reasonably, priced dealer.
Might be an opportunity for someone to sell rice coal @$395/ton!
Any unreasonable pricing will be corrected by the open market.
The more 'over exuberance' the person/company uses in their pricing/marketing the more brutally the market punishes the person/company.
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:29 am


That night service call would be free if it is in the first year. These are all things that get factored into the cost of the unit. As for the price of coal, we sell Blaschak at $310 per ton, bagged, if you buy the stove from us. That is about $40 less than the the going rate around here. Blaschak is about $205 a ton at the breaker, and then you have to get it trucked up here, and time spent unloading the tractor, storage, handling... it is more of a service to our customers than a money maker, but we do it to promote more sales. Last year we were at $265 a ton, the three surrounding dealers were at $310. That dealer selling coal at $500 a ton is going to be sitting on a lot of coal at the end of the year. I can get all of the coal I want. What I, or other dealers cannot get is all the boilers that we want. Supply and demand, and in this case demand has far outstripped supply. Give me the # of the Keystoker dealer, I will buy his entire inventory at those prices, and I will sell them all in a week. I sold four boilers in an hour last Saturday, plus more throughout the week, and the demand keeps increasing.

I purchased my Alaska unit when propane hit $1.98 a gallon, and it paid for itself, plus the class A install in about 2 years. Last year I saved about $3200 by burning coal, and this year the savings will be even more. The savings will be sending me on a nice vacation in the spring. I have a couple of customers who are buying truck loads of coal at a time, enough to last 8 years in some cases. Good for them, they are price protected for a long time.

Complete Heat
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

Re: Bad Dealers

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:01 pm

I've removed the last few posts from this thread. If the authors of those posts wish to have them placed back here let me know and I will.

morr88, I've forwarded your last post to Complete heat via a PM so he can read it in private.
Richard S.
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite