Oiled Coal at Breaker

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: TamaquaMan On: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:24 pm

Well I am amazed that using water is not causing rust. I mean, I have lots of rust, even though I got to great lengths to control moisture. If I did what you guys do, the things would rust to pieces. Maybe Keystoker's product is not so great.
TamaquaMan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: AX-120

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:25 am

Different makes and types of coal appliances will have different outcomes with water wetted or oiled coal. Both reduce dust, whether or not it will work well for your appliance would be the manufactures call.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: Bob On: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:33 am

My coal supplier gets his coal from Superior and Superior offers oiling at the breaker. I order oiled coal. The rate of application has been 3 gallons for either 7 or 8 tons. My supplier says he simply passes the cost of the oil along--5.25 per gallon in 2007 anad 2008. So my cost has been 15.75 for 7 or 8 tons. I don't find much oil residual on the bottom of the coal bin at the end of the year and it is quite effective in controlling dust. I view it is money well spent. EDIT--I just bought coal (6-8-09) and oil is up to $8 per gallon.
Last edited by Bob on Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite


Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:26 am

TamaquaMan wrote:And Keystoker tells you to "oil" coal. I mean, I spoke to them directly in the Keystoker plant which is just a few miles from Tamaqua.
We need more input on this. The engineer told me that the oil cuts down on rust problems.


That's only going to help in the hopper, and before it gets in the burn chamber.

EFM has a cleanout type mechanism that removes the fines before it goes into the pot. I believe LL also has some kind system for fines removal or an area that can get clogged up with fines. If it's oiled its going to be gunky mess after a while which might be why they suggest not using oiled coal. Don't quote me I don't think I ever heard Jerry from LL say don't use oil coal.

Stoker-mam from EFM can let you know what the deal is as far as there boilers go. I'll let him know about this thread.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: jrn8265 On: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:14 pm

I have a keystoker 160. I have just a little red on the grate from a season of burning. I have a 100 watt bulb in the unit all closed up with a bucket of damprid in there too.

I also have a dehumidifier in the basement. I can't see any rusting concerns with a keystoker as long as your basement is relatively dry and you do these things. I notice the bucket of damprid is a little wet so it must be working to pull the moisure that the lightbulb does not dry up.

Now if you have a basement that has a dirt floor or is VERY humid, maybe over the 6 months of off season you would get SOME rust. These things are built like tanks and I can't see under any relatively dry conditions that you would have a rusting problem in less than 20 years of use unless you do not clean it properly each season. My opinion. As far as oil, I find it messier than using watered down. It stuck to everything, smelled and just did not work for me.

Many have mentioned spraying the coal down when loading and that works for me quite well.

I also built a sealed room (with silicone in cracks) around my coal bin and also put a litlle top over the stoker were I put the coal in. Keeps any dust from rising up into the area. I also pour slowly.
jrn8265
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker Koker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker 160

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:23 am

My Harmon VF3000 manual states to use dry or damp coal, not wet or oiled. I have a very dry basement, but in this climate, the basement is cooler in the summer and causes condensation on every metal surface in my basement. Especially the cold water pipes. If I had my boiler in the basement it would surely rust from condensation. I have to run 2 dehumidifiers all sumer to keep up with it.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: coalkirk On: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:00 am

Never saw anything in the vf3k manual about not using oiled coal. Must be a new warning.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: 009to090 On: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:45 am

coalkirk wrote:Never saw anything in the vf3k manual about not using oiled coal. Must be a new warning.


I found this warning in the new VF3000 Installation & Operating Manual:
It is best to buy your supply of coal when the temperature is above freezing. This is because many dealers put kerosine or fuel oil on the truck box and calcium on the coal to keep it from freezing while it is being transported. The calcium helps cause rust and the oil may cause an odor depending on what type is used.


http://www.harmanstoves.com/doc/vf3000m.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
009to090
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 HighBoy
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: DVC-500 x 2
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Rice

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: stoker-man On: Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:20 am

It's cheap enough to buy, but all restaurants have a waste oil drum at the back door.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: coal berner On: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:04 pm

Mosisture content in Anthracite coal is less then 15% Anthracite coal is wet when it's in the ground from rain water the mines are not dry and it will be wet when it sits above the ground. When it goes from the mine to the breaker it is washed with water when it is being processed then it is washed again when it is getting loaded in the trucks for delivery unless the delivery guy wants it dry or with Veg or Peanut Oil in the warmer weather they will use both water or oil. When winter comes they will use Veg or Peanut Oil because it will not freeze up like water will . It also sits wet inside the coal breaker bins when the bins are full then it is loaded and dump on the stock pile outside. Which again it will be wet from the rain water . Damping coal with water to keep the dust down shound not hurt anything. But will rust some stove hoppers if the coal is soaked with water and it lays in the hopper to long but most of the time it drys out from the heat off the stove . Most of the bigger breaker offer Oiled coal for a extra fee 6 to 8 per gal They use about a 1/2 Gal per ton of coal. low grade Veg oil or Peanut oil will work fine . You only need to use a 1/2 gal Per ton of coal .
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:33 pm

DVC500 at last wrote:I found this warning in the new VF3000 Installation & Operating Manual:
It is best to buy your supply of coal when the temperature is above freezing. This is because many dealers put kerosine or fuel oil on the truck box and calcium on the coal to keep it from freezing while it is being transported. The calcium helps cause rust and the oil may cause an odor depending on what type is


Well I can tell you I never have used oil. As far as the rock salt or calcium chloride I rarely used that either except to get ice out of the box in the morning. My boxes are lined with stainless steel. As long as it wasn't soaking wet to form a puddle it would freeze to the box and form a crust. You'd only have to slam the box with the shovel and most of it would peel right off. If not it was easily scraped off. Salt or Calcium could actually make it worse a lot of times because it would keep that bottom part from freezing at first and as more moisture made it's way into the bottom of the box it would puddle then freeze because it was diluted.

What I would do occasionally is throw some over the top especially on the ass end of the truck as the top would freeze the worse. ;)
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: Berlin On: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:26 am

while i'm sure that what's used to oil coal varries the "low grade vegetable oil" that i've known to oil coal (or at least this is what they should be using) is rapeseed oil, it's what's used to coat most galvanized steel items after manufacture, and is used commonly in industry where corrosion protection/light lubrication is needed without going rancid or becoming "gummy" for a long period of time due to certain mild toxins in the oil itself.

there's nothing wrong with using petrol based products, in fact, it would be best. as was mentioned, anyone who's ever worked with vegetable oil knows how unstable and subject to rancidity it is; i've looked at enough diesel injection pumps where someone has been running filtered "clean" waste vegetable oil to never want to run it in even the shittiest diesel i own not to mention what it does to the inside of the engine and wet-stacks valves at 30+ ºF, which is rediculous! A light petrol based hydrolic oil will NOT break down, will lubricate very, very well, protect against corrosion and not produce any overpowering smells or negative effects- this IMHO is the only way to go if you are going to oil the coal yourself.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:23 am

People have used oiled coal in the efm units, but we don't have any opinion on it.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: TamaquaMan On: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:55 am

I think the one guy hit the nail on the head when talking about basement humidity. I have a very humid basement so, I guess, even with all of the measure I take to prevent rust, it will always be present until I do something to stop it.

I have purchased a dehumidifier!
:D
TamaquaMan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: AX-120

Re: Oiled Coal at Breaker

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:41 pm

rapeseed oil

Canola oil is what most people will find on the supermarket shelves.
http://www.alphadictionary.com/blog/?p=208
Mineral oil will work too!
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove