Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:46 pm

What model do you think is better and why, the Pioneer LE Top Vent $2745 or the Keystoker 90k $2335? There is a $400 difference between the two and the higher priced one is 2.5 hours away. As of right now I have two dealers with each of them having one in stock and wish to get one before they are gone. Both dealers mentioned about having a power vent, one stated it was for $450 and the other mentioned it was $800 but then said it included some other items with it which he rambled off what they were. Anyone have any idea what might be coming with it and or what I would need to setup and use a power vent? There is also a 105k for $2651.
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: traderfjp On: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:20 pm

With a top vent you'll see the pipe coming out the top of the stove. You may like this but I wanted to hide my pipe so I went with a bottom vent. With a direct/vent power vent you don't need a chimney and vent directly outside an exterior wall. If you need a direct vent you better find out if the prices quoted included one. I would call the dealer and ask him to slowly tell u what each stove comes with while you write it all down. I would act fast before it's too late. Good luck.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:30 pm

The coal-trol I believe is standard equipment on the LL's. That would be one difference. Check with the dealer.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: ceccil On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:57 am

Its' been a couple of years since I bought my 90K DV and I think the price you have there looks a little low for a DV. I would also agree with trader on this. If you were to go with a DV I would get a bottom vent. Mine is a top vent ( I didn't know they had a bottom vent model when I bought it). If I had known I would have bought that. I think they look better and when you fill your hopper you don't have your vent pipe right in front of you.


This is a site I found that has some prices. I don't know when they were last updated though.



Some of the other "stuff" he was talking about was probobly the CO detector, thermostat, and ashpans which comes with them standard. Many others here are saying the best deal is a dealer who has one in stock. Don't wait to long!! :)
Last edited by Richard S. on Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <removed dead link>
ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:38 am

I understand that the Leisure Line's have the digital con-trol thermostats and the adjustable fan included with it. The problem is all of these stoves are all top vents, so getting a back vent were going to have to be waiting 8-10 weeks for a Keystoker and beginning of December for a Leisure Line.

None of the quotes include any of the stove piping parts just the stove only and what comes stock with them. The guy who quoted me $800 for a power vent had a few parts that were part of the setup of the power vent, like the auto shut off. But what I don't know is what any of the other pieces could be, what else would a person need in setting up a power vent, damper? I'm going to call the guy back this morning and ask him, but I'm not sure if I would be paying for extra stuff that I don't need because the other guy only quoted me for the power vent at $450. So it seems as though I'm either going to be paying for a few things I don't need or I'm going to have to be buying a few other parts in order to complete my setup.

From my understand a power vent and a direct vent are two different things? Doesn't one pull exhaust out from the end of the pipe through the stove while the other kind of pushes it out from the stove through the pipe? Also the power vent has to be 4' below and 4' horizontally away from a window or door opening and a direct vent can be a little closer? Other then a standard chimney do I have any other options other then a power vent?

I want to pull the trigger today, I just want to make sure I understand what it is I am getting and how it's going to be setup and what it's all going to cost me to have it up and running.
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Matthaus On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:01 am

The "other parts" are part of the Liesure Line factory PV kit. They include a barometric damper, rheostat to control the Power Vent speed, a WMO-1 Safety switch, and a 4" X 6" adapter. The Keystoker Direct Vent kit should also include the WMO-1 and the rheostat (you don't need the adapter since the DV has a 4" outlet), so make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Since the direct vent installs on the stove there is no baro.

One further item, you should not operate a direct vented or Power vented stove without some way to measure the draft. You can purchase a Dwyer Model 25 MK II on ebay for around $20 to $40 including shipping.

As you said the PV (LL) pulls the draft out of the stove and is mounted out on the wall and the DV 9Keystoker) pulls the draft out of the stove but is mounted on the stove so all the piping inside the house is under a slight pressure instead of a draft. The diagram found on this link gives you the whole picture in addition to the two dimensions you stated.

http://www.fieldcontrols.com/venting.php

Glad to see you are going to pull the trigger, no matter what you pick just make sure you understand the installation requirements before you plan the install. :)
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:20 am

Thanks Matthaus,

Thats much easier to understand now. Would it be safe to say that since the LL has more components with it's power vent that it would explain the two very different price quotes from each dealer selling the two different brand stoves? On the drawing it shows a draft control unit which allows supplemental air in through it, what part is that in the items list? Is the rheostat to control the Power Vent speed item (b) in the drawing? It says "the burner shuts down and the venter continues to post purge" does that mean the power vent is now not using electricity to vent the exhaust at that point?

I understand using the Dwyer Model 25 MK II to gather information about what your system is doing, but there are no adjustments or anything like that on it, it's only going to tell you if your venting is working properly or not? There's a piece that connects right inside the exhaust pipe? It says it has a maximum working temperature of 140 degrees, isn't that low for an exhaust pipe? Do the coal stove pipes not get as hot as a wood stove pipe does? The guy at CSM told me that the exhaust on a power vent is low only around a couple hundred degrees, wouldn't that fry at 200 degrees?

Can the Keystoker direct vent be installed on their top vented stoves or just their back vented ones and is the distance it has to be away from doors and windows any different from the power vent?
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Matthaus On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:52 am

Adamiscold wrote:Thats much easier to understand now. Would it be safe to say that since the LL has more components with it's power vent that it would explain the two very different price quotes from each dealer selling the two different brand stoves? On the drawing it shows a draft control unit which allows supplemental air in through it, what part is that in the items list? Is the rheostat to control the Power Vent speed item (b) in the drawing? It says "the burner shuts down and the venter continues to post purge" does that mean the power vent is now not using electricity to vent the exhaust at that point?


Draft control and post purge are for a gas or oil systems, disregard that information. Best bet is read the manual for which ever you are looking at to understand the exact way it will operate, as with all forum advice, you get what you pay for. :)

Adamiscold wrote:I understand using the Dwyer Model 25 MK II to gather information about what your system is doing, but there are no adjustments or anything like that on it, it's only going to tell you if your venting is working properly or not? There's a piece that connects right inside the exhaust pipe? It says it has a maximum working temperature of 140 degrees, isn't that low for an exhaust pipe? Do the coal stove pipes not get as hot as a wood stove pipe does? The guy at CSM told me that the exhaust on a power vent is low only around a couple hundred degrees, wouldn't that fry at 200 degrees?


The rheostat controls the draft and without a manometer you are operating blind, either sending extra heat out or CO into the house. The connection of the Dwyer is made using a small section of steel tubing inserted into a hold drilled in the stove pipe for situations where the temp is higher than 140*F or in the case of the DV just before the DV unit. I have seen them used on stack temps upwards of 500*F with no issues with this setup. BTW a direct vent must be cleaned every month or it will clog and cause big issues with CO in the house, some folks go longer but take a look at a unit I just recently removed from a DV Keystoker I'm rebuilding.[/quote]

Adamiscold wrote: Can the Keystoker direct vent be installed on their top vented stoves or just their back vented ones and is the distance it has to be away from doors and windows any different from the power vent?


Per Keystoker it can, make sure you check with your dealer to confirm that is true on the model you are buying. Distance from openings and walkways are identical for PV or DV, in fact the Keystoker diagram looks familiar with respect to the Field Controls diagram.
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Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Dans58 On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:20 am

I've been shopping stoves for the last month. I'm not sure of the price difference between LLs Pioneer and Pocono, but I had quotes on the Pocono with PowerVent for $2770. Also the LL included the Coal-Trol which I believe is standard on all LLs. The Keystoker dealers all seemed to be in the $2900 to $3000 range for the 90K Direct Vent . I finally ended up with a leftover 90K from a dealer that was pushing to unload.
Dans58
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K DV

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:26 am

Thanks Matthaus,

The power vent has to be cleaned every month, you sure it isn't every year? Every month sure does seem to the extreme, especially when it's cold out side and you need the stove running to stay warm and you have to shut it off and as you are waiting for the pipe to cool down to where you can safely handle it the whole house is cooling off and then the stove has to work that much harder to get back up to room temperature.

The one in the picture sure looks like it's an older power vent.
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: ceccil On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:50 am

You can DV the top vent Keystoker, mine came setup that way. I only shut down to clean the DV and piping once in the middle of the season when I first bought it. After that I started cleaning it more often as Matt said due to the large amount of ash that builds up in the in the fan and the pipes. I called Keystoker about the rheostat and what speed it should be run at and the guy told me it should be run wide open. That is where the mark is drawn from the factory also. My control has a dead spot when it's turned down, thats why I called to ask. Seems to me if it's run at full speed you would be venting more heat out of the stove than needed. Also this may be the reason I had so much buildup of fly ash in fan and pipes. As stated, you should pick up a manometer to ensure you have the proper draft.
ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:19 am

I think we are going to go with the Pioneer LE top vent, waiting for the woman to call me back so I put a down payment on it. Now I'm just not sure if I want to go the power vent way or not :? I really would like it to be as easy as possible for us to take care of, especially if something was to happen to me and my wife was then the one having to attend to it.


If we go with a regular chimney then all we would need other then the stove pipe would be a barometric damper and a Dwyer Model 25 MK II? The barometric damper is auto adjusting so it doesn't need playing with once it's all setup correct?
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Matthaus On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:08 pm

The picture was a direct vent not a power vent, it was only in service for 2 months since previous cleaning according to the seller.

Power vents do not need monthly cleaning although I do mine every month, DV units on the other hand are right at the stove and get dirty faster. The stove needs to be shut down for DV maint, for PV maint you can simply crank it up all the way on the rheostat and tap on the flue pipe to shake loose the fly ash, then use a leaf blower outside to blow off the loose fly ash, the final step is to remove the cover and use the SWG $15 special oil to put one drop in each motor bearing. Also spray WD 40 or the like up into the aluminum cooling fan to keep it from corroding in the ash environment. I have seen SWG power vents last only one season because they were heavily used and not maintained. Mine is on its third season and looks new from performing the above maint (sometimes I only clean it every 2 or three months if it isn't the heavy burning season).

You are correct a chimney needs only initial set up and then annual cleaning of the stove pipe to operate.
Matthaus
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110 Dual Fuel, natural gas
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Lil' Heater (rental house)
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Buckwheat Anthracite

Re: Comparing Leisure Line to Keystoker

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:02 pm

Thanks Matt,

I did pull the trigger and we bought the Leisure Line Pioneer LE top vent, we'll be picking it up tomorrow. I'm going to have to talk to the wife and decide at a later time how we are going to vent this, I'm sure there won't be a shortage on chimney's like there is with stoves.

Just a note on the store I bought this from, this morning she sold the LL Pioneer LE floor model before they got a chance to fire it up to a guy in Maine. She also sold the 2 LL Hyfire II's and the 2 Hitzer floor model's all this morning! Seems like coal is going to be very popular this year, wonder how far the coal prices are going to spike?

In case anyone is interested the only place I found that had a LL stove in stock has one LL Pocono with a duel DHW coil setup for 3,019 up in Fort Kent, Maine at Pelletier Florist. For those still looking for a stove of course :)
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Visit Lehigh Anthracite