Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: bwentz On: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:36 am

Design suggestions for cold air return used on a Koker that is piped into a forced hot air heating system.
bwentz
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: bwentz On: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:38 am

Design suggestions for cold air return used on a Koker that is piped into a forced hot air heating system.

Looking for ideas and suggestions to improve heat output -
bwentz
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: Lumberjack On: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:04 am

Hard to give a specific suggestion without knowing exactly what your setup is.

Mine is setup in parallel to the oil furnace and uses a back draft damper in each furnace to prevent air from flowing backwards through the system. The intake will pull from the intake of the old system and the output is simply piped to the rest of the ductwork. I needed the system to be easily removable and have a minimal impact on the existing system so that it can be return to the original state easily.
Lumberjack
 

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Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: stokin-railroad On: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:48 am

Hi bwentz,i also am using a koker.works great as heat source 1200 sq.ft.all we did was attach flex duct from koker to furnace plenum last season.fall project is to hook as per leisure line diagram for fha.attach to cold air return from koker,check out l.l.website.a friend of mine who used to be in heating and a/c says that this should create a natural convection.warm air rises cold air settles makes sence to me.anyway it all worked fine as is last year so im going to change it and see if i can screw it up.you should be very pleased with your new heat this season.good luck! no cold air return used at all, was very comfortable.you can use starting collar for round duct work to a T to straight pipe with collar to cold air return if you really want to connect .some one posted pict.of a setup like this on forum.
stokin-railroad
 
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: koker 160k

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:55 am

I believe the best way is what Lumberjack describes.. your home is equiped with hot air supply ducts and cold air return ducts.. put the coal boiler in parallel with the existing furnace, and use back-flow dampers.

If I remember correcty lumberjack is in a rental house, so he ducted his system for minimal modification from the existing ducts and furnace.. so if he needs to he can disconnect and take the furnace with him when/if he moves.

The most important thing is to hook your cold air ducts to the cold air inlet/filter box on the coal furnace.. DON'T pull cold air off the basement floor,, this isvery inefficient.. you want to re-heat and re-fliter returned air from upstairs,

Hope this helps..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: Lumberjack On: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:34 pm

LS your memory is better then mine LOL
Lumberjack
 

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: bwentz On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:29 am

Lumberjack wrote:Hard to give a specific suggestion without knowing exactly what your setup is.

Mine is setup in parallel to the oil furnace and uses a back draft damper in each furnace to prevent air from flowing backwards through the system. The intake will pull from the intake of the old system and the output is simply piped to the rest of the ductwork. I needed the system to be easily removable and have a minimal impact on the existing system so that it can be return to the original state easily.


My own setup is this - I have a forced hot air natural gas furnace(about 25 years old) that replaced an old reconverted to gas coal furnace (talk about dollars going up the chimney) - I bought the Koker about 5 years ago and hooked into my hot air plenum system - saved a lot of money, warmer, great but did nothing about the cold air return - just taking cold air from the basement which is not what I should be doing.

I would like to develop a box that encases the blower and filters (redo filter design) and feed the cold air return into it - creating a true parallel system.
bwentz
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: bwentz On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:33 am

LsFarm wrote:I believe the best way is what Lumberjack describes.. your home is equiped with hot air supply ducts and cold air return ducts.. put the coal boiler in parallel with the existing furnace, and use back-flow dampers.

If I remember correcty lumberjack is in a rental house, so he ducted his system for minimal modification from the existing ducts and furnace.. so if he needs to he can disconnect and take the furnace with him when/if he moves.

The most important thing is to hook your cold air ducts to the cold air inlet/filter box on the coal furnace.. DON'T pull cold air off the basement floor,, this isvery inefficient.. you want to re-heat and re-fliter returned air from upstairs,

Hope this helps..

Greg L


Greg - you are absolutely correct - do not pull cold air from the basement floor (what I am doing) - looking for design ideas for a way to encase the blower and filter return air - hopefully improving the efficiency and keeping the blower clean (it just sucks the ash dust right to it) -
bwentz
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: bwentz On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:38 am

stokin-railroad wrote:Hi bwentz,i also am using a koker.works great as heat source 1200 sq.ft.all we did was attach flex duct from koker to furnace plenum last season.fall project is to hook as per leisure line diagram for fha.attach to cold air return from koker,check out l.l.website.a friend of mine who used to be in heating and a/c says that this should create a natural convection.warm air rises cold air settles makes sence to me.anyway it all worked fine as is last year so im going to change it and see if i can screw it up.you should be very pleased with your new heat this season.good luck! no cold air return used at all, was very comfortable.you can use starting collar for round duct work to a T to straight pipe with collar to cold air return if you really want to connect .some one posted pict.of a setup like this on forum.


Hello Stokin-Railroad - Koker is a pretty nice furnace - simple in design and sure heats better than my 25 year old gas furnace - keep the house nice and warm and the money saved is tremendous -

I have little knowledge of the competitive stoves to Keystoker and wouldn't be able to compare one to another, but I just feel that a furnace needs a developed cold air system if you are providing a blower for hot air - Keystoker does not - will look at the Leisure Line web site for more info - thanks
bwentz
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: Lumberjack On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:16 am

So if I understand you correctly, you have never had the cold air return for any of your systems and want to install one onto your existing koker...

I dont know if the older kokers came with a return but the new ones do so for mine it was a simple matter. You need to determine if you have a return air connection and if it will support a filter. If your furnace does not have the connection and does not support a filter then you will have to custom make a box to attach to the furnace. You may be able to scavenge the materials from a scrapped one and save yourself some engineering. Make sure the intake is sized as large or slightly larger then the hot air ducting.

You will also have to locate suitable places to install your cold air return lines from the upper rooms. Generally you want to ensure the air will be moved through out the room but the ideal locations are frequently difficult to reach with the ductwork. The last one I did. I ran the ducting up alongside the block chimney in the living room and then boxed around both to finish it. First floor returns are usually much easier so they should be selected and installed last.

One way to decide is to make a crude drawing of the house and mark where all the possible vents could be and then eliminate all the ones that are impractical to reach with the ductwork. Usually this leaves very few choices...
Lumberjack
 

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:38 am

In addition to Lumberjack's excellent info and suggestions.. if you are building a custom return air/fan/filter box,, make sure you design it to fit common size air filters.. I made a filter box a few years ago, but designed it to use a commercially available, but rather non-standard size.. all the local hardware, box stores etc NEVER had my filter size,, much less on sale.. I ended up having to order from a heating supply store, for about 10x the 'on sale' price for a standard [common] size filter... live and learn..

I think you can tie into your existing cold air returns.. I think you said you have them with the current furnace,, just not hooked into the coal furnace..?? is this right??

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: bwentz On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:31 am

Hey guys - thanks for the feedback -

Nope - on my Koker the fan assembly is exposed with two filters on each side (takes 12 x 12 filters and they need to be special ordered) - cool air is supplied by the air in the basement and we all agree, this is bad. If Keystoker is adding on a box or some kind of means to address cold air return - that's great and should be done.

I work for a sheet metal shop in Bingo and probably need to design and have something made - and it needs to use filters you can buy anywhere (not those 12 x 12 things) - the stove is located near my ash barrels and there is plenty of dust that gets sucked back into the filters and probably the fan (which is a replacement I will probably have to make down the road) -

I have a Gas Highboy right near by and use the forced air plenums for my heat but do nothing with the returns (that are located from the first floor of my home) - so that air is not being fed into the stove as it should.

I hate to reinvent the wheel if someone has designed a box or if keystoker sells an add on - love to hear about it -

Whoever put this forum together - this is great - there are a lot of us out there who burn coal but have little knowledge of what's going on in the industry - manufacturer's websites, dealer websites don't put out a lot of info.

Thanks
bwentz
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 12:39 pm

bwentz, you work in a sheet metal shop?? I'd just go to the local hardware or box store, and find what size filter to buy... a 16x20 seems to be a common size, but DON'T count on my memory :D !

Just have your shop bend up a box that you can screw to the end of the cabinet, and have a single filter at the inlet.. then fab up your ducts.. I'm sure that anything you bend up will work fine.. just as long as you no longer pull cold and dusty [ashes] air from the basement floor into your furnace..

Just from the 'science experiment' standpoint.. have you ever measured the temperature of the air from your hot air vents??? I'll bet it will measure 20*-30* warmer with the correct cold air [~65*] return feeding the furnace instead of the ~50* air from the basement floor..

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: watkinsdr On: Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:07 pm

FYI: I have a Koker too---12"x12" filters are found at any Home Depot or Lowe's; and, they're very resonably priced.

I'm swapping my system over to the Leisure Line cold air return method this fall to improve hot air supply air flow.

http://www.leisurelinestoves.com/1904137.html
watkinsdr
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S260 Boiler

Re: Cold air return for Keystoker Koker

PostBy: bwentz On: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:40 pm

Well Watkinsdr - Well, you must have one of those bigger and better big box hardware stores in your neck of the woods - ours doesn't have the 12 x 12 but I have a standing agreement with a local hardware store where I get a dozen on yearly basis - and I use them up.

What I think I will do is what has been suggested - build a box that encloses the main blower and put a good sized filter in it along with my cold air return that would normally go to my gas hot air furnace -

My overall goal is to eventually buy another gas furnace (as the back up) and redo all of the duct work - I have insulated the house years ago and have finally finished replacing all of the windows (house was built at the turn of the century and not this one).

My fear is that coal will become so popular around here that with supply and demand the cost will be on par with natural gas - but I have paid for the stove and saved big time with the savings I have seen over the years, and with some of these sugestions, I will probably see even more savings.
bwentz
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: Koker

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