JUst what we need:

Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: BugsyR On: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:11 pm

Devil5052 wrote:
BugsyR wrote:I've been to 20 of the 36 higher ranked countries. If I had a choice on where to live out of the top 36 countries taking health care and everything else into consideration....I still choose USA...and the USA's supposed broken health care.



Come on Mike....That's a tactic right out of Karle Rove's handbook! Show me where I said I'd rather live in another country?
What I am saying is that I love my country & want to see it's health care system improved & made available to all legal residents. (Being rated just above Slovenia & Cuba is just not where we should be)
If that's unpatriotic, so be it.



I never claimed that the military (or government wide for that matter) health care system is "perfect" & beyond improvement. What I am saying is that it sure beats the hell out of no health care at all, which is all my hardworking, fifth generation American, taxpaying son-in-law can afford.
I feel that my lifetime of government service gives me as much right as your service in the Navy does to express my opinion without having to defend my patriotism.


....."have you ever seen the movie "Born on the Fourth of July".".....

Never saw it


Where did I question your patriotism? I fully understand that you feel our health care system should be number 1. So do I. BUT I want the USA to be number 1 in EVERY catergory...that will never happen.
You never said you want to live in another country!!!...Where did I say you did?
All I said was I'd choose USA over the others. How in the hell does that equate to you being less patriotic than me??? :x (I don't think I ever used the "mad" smiley before... :) )

I never read anything of Karle Rove's..is he a good writer? What's his latest work?

I commented mostly because of your following quote....
"This system has worked fine for our Armed Forces, Congress & White House for over 200 years..."


"our Armed Forces" and from what I read, I see it as pure speculation and assumption. You obviously want everyone to have the same medical as the military...fine...join! As you can see in my post I would much rather have the benefits my Father-In-Law has. You state that the military has a socialized medicine that has worked fine for over 200 years...how would you know? Do you know anything at all about how the military cares for their people and dependents? I'll keep it simple...how does a retired military person's child get medical care if they live...say farther than 50 miles from the nearest military medical facility...and how much out of pocket expenses would be paid by the retired member? If you find the answer..does it fit the mold of your so called Socialized Health care?

Here's another one...You are on active duty and live over 35 miles from the nearest Military Hospital. Your 10 year old wakes up with a screaming ear infection, you call TriCare and the earliest they can get you an appointment is in 3 days at the Air Station's Clinic 4 miles from your house...(wow, that does sound like socialized health care!!!!) or you can drive 35 miles to the military emergency room and sit for hours on end, or the local 'Patient First' can get you in to see a doctor in 2 hours but you pay completely out of pocket, submit all the paperwork and pray that TriCare helps a little with the cost...which do you select? (personally...I don't see how this one fits the mold of Military "Socialized" Health Care...to me it sounds like Broken Socialized Health Care)

You state that Congress has socialized medicine...do they? Can you post links to their medical benefits information, I would love to see what they are provided by us tax payers and compare that to the military's (active and retired, with/without dependents).

"Born on the Fourth of July" is based on the biography of Ron Kovic. Paralyzed in the Vietnam war, he becomes an anti-war and pro-human rights political activist after feeling betrayed by the country he fought for.
In that movie you will see an example of how well our Vietnam War Vets were cared for by a "system that has worked fine for our Armed Forces...for over 200 years..."

The way I read it, you state your idea of socialized medicine referring to...the Armed Forces, Congress, and the White House type of health coverage...that we the tax payers are already paying for...but you leave out one major thing...the more money and power you have...the better the health coverage (T. Kennedy)....so, is it really socialized? When the politicians finally decide on how their employers (taxpayers) will get medical care, do you really believe that we will receive the same quality health care that they (our employees) will receive? If you believe in social medicine you should answer that far fetch question with a "yes". But will it ever be true?

Lastly...I fully appreciate my retiree benefits. No matter how bad I may think the benefits are...I still fully appreciate the fact that I have earned military retiree benefits for myself and family. These benefits are available to any one in the United States by the way...all that is required is 20 years of honorable service.
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: BugsyR On: Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:14 pm

Devil5052 wrote: We need a system that is affordable & available to all taxpayers & not just a few privileged or "connected" few.


Now this I agree with!!

(as long as it is better than retired military benefits!! And still provides Freedom of Choice of medical providers!!:) :) )
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: billw On: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:29 pm

Bugsy, After I read your post I wanted to yell, All The Way Sir. :) When I was on active duty we had great health care. Of course I was a healthy 19 YO, single guy. If you were sick you went on sick call. When I crashed on Sicily DZ I went to Womack army hospital and got taken care of. Your retiree medical sounds like the health insurance we had for a couple of years. When you're healthy they took the premium payment and you had insurance. When you had a claim you were on your own.

I'm pretty surprised that the military retiree insurance sucks. So much for 'nothing is to good for our troops'.
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: BugsyR On: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:40 pm

billw wrote:Bugsy, After I read your post I wanted to yell, All The Way Sir. :) When I was on active duty we had great health care. Of course I was a healthy 19 YO, single guy. If you were sick you went on sick call. When I crashed on Sicily DZ I went to Womack army hospital and got taken care of. Your retiree medical sounds like the health insurance we had for a couple of years. When you're healthy they took the premium payment and you had insurance. When you had a claim you were on your own.

I'm pretty surprised that the military retiree insurance sucks. So much for 'nothing is to good for our troops'.


I hope I didn't say it sucks...I just don't want people to take it as a good example of what they call socialized medicine.

Okay I'll say it...sometimes it really sucks... :lol: :lol: ...but I am glad I have it.

If you were sick you went on sick call.
I still haven't adjusted well to civilian life. When you're sick you go to work end of story. We had to have a corpsman tell us we were sick... :lol: :lol:

I remember going to sick call for some over the counter cough drops and drixoral...had what we called the crud...the corpsman wouldn't issue me otc stuff before seeing the sick call corpsman....2 and half hour wait...blood pressure, heart rate, temperature, finally see the guy, asks whats wrong, told him, "I have the crud...sore throat...congested...etc"...he says..."drop the drawers and bend over....." (just joking for humorous effect :lol: ) ... out comes the tongue depressor and he says..."yup, you have a sore throat and you sound congested." "well no *censored* einstein!!!" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway....Thanks Bill!
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:44 am

I am guessing you are probably extremely busy doing that silly "Pilot Nonsense" Greg :lol: ........but I would really like to hear a response to my earlier question about your perceived differences between GW Bush's policies & those articulated by Sen. McCain, when you get a chance.

Devil5052 wrote:I just can't find a difference Greg, on any major issue.....foreign or domestic & that's not the media's doing.....It's John McCain himself. (at least the 2008 version of John McCain)
Please enlighten me?....Where does John McCain differ from GW Bush?
(& don't you admit that a McCain Presidency would keep many/most of the same people who presently work for & advise GW Bush?)
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:22 am

BugsyR wrote:I never read anything of Karle Rove's..is he a good writer? What's his latest work?





His "latest work" is still sitting in the Oval Office at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave , Washington DC but we are all mercifully coming to the end of the book! :lol:
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: BugsyR On: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:40 am

Devil5052 wrote: His "latest work" is still sitting in the Oval Office at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave , Washington DC but we are all mercifully coming to the end of the book! :lol:


Does that mean he is going to start writing another as soon as McCain takes office? :funny:
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:06 pm

BugsyR wrote:Does that mean he is going to start writing another as soon as McCain takes office? :funny:



It would mean that the American voter has already "bought" his "latest work" if McCain is elected! :devil:
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: BugsyR On: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:27 pm

Devil5052 wrote: It would mean that the American voter has already "bought" his "latest work" if McCain is elected! :devil:


Good one!! :lol:
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:41 pm

BugsyR wrote:Good one!! :lol:




(Bows......or should I say swirls his red cape around his neck!).....Thanks Mike :devil:
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:47 pm

Those airline pilots just work to hard :lol: , so I'll throw my serious question (to Greg) out to any any McCain supporter who doesn't believe that a McCain Presidency will be just really GW Bush's third term. Here's the question I put to Greg before:


Devil5052 wrote: LsFarm wrote:Repeat after me: McCain is not G. Bush,, McCain is not G. Bush.. McCain is NOT G. Bush.

In spite of what the media whould like you to believe.

Greg L.





I just can't find a difference Greg, on any major issue.....foreign or domestic & that's not the media's doing.....It's John McCain himself. (at least the 2008 version of John McCain)
Please enlighten me?....Where does John McCain differ from GW Bush?
(& don't you admit that a McCain Presidency would keep many/most of the same people who presently work for & advise GW Bush?)




Here are a few guesses:



McCain' Presidency / Obama's Presidency




Sec. of State : Condoleza Rice (same) / Joe Biden

Sec of Defense : Gates (same) / Collen Powell

Sec of Treasury : Phil Graham (called us all "whiners") / Ben Cardin

Atty General : Mukasi (same) / Sheldon Whitehouse (former US Atty)
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Jul 30, 2008 1:45 am

Dick, you may way too many assumptions.. I'll bet the cabinet will be quite different.

Remember,, McCain is NOT Bush., McCain is NOT Bush...

You'll learn the mantra... it will sound a lot better than what you will be saying if Obama get in:

I can't believe I voted for this guy, I can't believe I believed this guy, I can't believe I voted for this guy.



Greg L
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:21 am

LsFarm wrote:Remember,, McCain is NOT Bush., McCain is NOT Bush...



I keep hearing you saying that Greg, & trying to blame that perception on the evil media :D ..............but......I still haven't heard any substantive differences between the two of them. If you could enlighten me as to where a President McCain would really differ in his policies (either foreign or domestic) or his advisers/cabinet, I'll listen. Until then I'm going to have to start my own mantra:

McCain is Bush ........... McCain is Bush ........... McCain is Bush




Don't get me wrong......For those of you who like our present economy & are doing well, by all means vote for Bush's third term (McCain).......It's in you self interests to do so. (I can't imagine why any Bill Gates or Rupert Murdock types would belong to this forum of citizens struggling to find a cheaper way to heat their home, but maybe there are??)
For the rest of us mere mortals, we need a change!


I hope I didn't raise your blood pressure too much this morning! :devil:
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:13 am

traderfjp wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but I would just add that I wouldn't put too much stock into what you read in the papers. I would wait for the debates and then form an opinion. I really don't want to pay more in taxes but I really don't want another George BUsh clone for 4 more years either.



As far as worrying about your paying more in taxes traderfjp, unless you make over $227K per year, you'll pay[b] less under a President Obama than you would under a President McCain. [/b]
Reprint of McCain/Obama Tax Differences:

BREAKING DOWN THE NUMBERS
Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals were fully in place.
MCCAIN OBAMA
Income Avg. tax bill Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567



Example from above table: If you look at someone earning between $38K-$66K....They will save three times more under Obama ($-1,042) than under McCain.($-319)

Then look at those earning between $227K-$603K......Under Obama they would pay $12.00 more in taxes....Under McCain they would save $4,380 in taxes!! (& of course the rest of us would have to take up the slack, right? :mad: )
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: JUst what we need:

PostBy: spc On: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:46 am

"And as president, we'll ensure that economic justice is served"
BO repeated that term at least four times in an naacp speech,

What do you think that is code for???
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