Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Mantis On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:01 pm

Not another TLC thread! :P

While anxiously anticipating my new Harman I have a few questions for the current owners and would also like to get to know you all. I dropped a 500. Deposit on the last in stock TLC last week and pick it up the first or second week of August when I cash out my overtime hours. I’m 30yrs old, father of a 10month old boy. My girlfriend, son and I live in a 1000 sq ft log home plus loft and an almost finished basement ( the family room where the stove is going needs flooring, sheetrock and cultured stone behind stove location. I finished my “man cave” last fall. A 10X12 bow/gun workshop, fly tying room. It turned out beautiful. I’m a Firefighter and hobbies include bow hunting, fly fishing, mountain biking, boating, and among other things, soon to be coal shaking.

I’ve spent a lot of time reading through the threads and if I ask a question that’s already been discussed, my apologies.

First off, I’ve read where many don’t burn wood much in the TLC but I have a feeling I’ll be burning a few good wood fires now and then early in the fall. Nothing beets a good wood fire for looks and smell when the leaves are changing. All free wood and no pine I learned. My question is, can you remove the three bars in the front of the fire box for an unobstructed view of the fire? I see the wood burning TL-300 stove has two log cradles. Would I need to purchase something like that to keep the logs off the glass door? Are those three bars there to move air on the glass for cleaning?

Second question. I think I read that the top loading door opens a damper and the door at the same time. For those that say they use the front door to load the stove; how are you not getting a blast of smoke. Are you opening the top door, then the front? And if what I read is correct, how can a simultaneous opening of the damper and top door work without smoke entering the room. From my experience in wood burning, it takes a few seconds for the smoke to clear the burn chamber. And if I’m right in my thinking, how could you possibly use a fire screen?


Lastly, on the subject of flashover. Super heated unburned gas explosion due to semi smothering the flame during loading. Devil, you mentioned adding more brick to allow for more coal. How do you avoid flashover when adding so much more coal on the fire? I’ve read about people leaving an open flame somewhere in the box but is that possible to do with the added amount you’re loading in or do you just fill it without a problem?

I’m sure I’ll have plenty of questions in the future. I thank you all for the much needed help. I’m very fortunate that there is a site such as this and thanks to everyone here, I’m looking more forward to my cozy coal fired home this winter.



Summer Sucks!

Fran
Mantis
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC2000
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut/Private mine IDK

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:30 pm

I have attached a link to the Harman owner's manual for the TLC2000


http://www.harmanstoves.com/doc/tlc2000m.pdf
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


As far as your questions:

Mantis wrote:My question is, can you remove the three bars in the front of the fire box for an unobstructed view of the fire?


Yes. The bars themselves simply slide out & the bracket that holds them also comes out. No toolzs needed.


Mantis wrote:For those that say they use the front door to load the stove; how are you not getting a blast of smoke.


I open the bottom (ash) door first & let the fire liven & the draft improve. (just a few minutes is usually all it takes) Then, I open the glass door (or top load door)for loading. (the chimney draw will keep gases being sucked in) The Harman manual warns against opening the ash door & the glass door simultaneously, but I do it all the time....once the draft is livened up.

Mantis wrote:Devil, you mentioned adding more brick to allow for more coal. How do you avoid flashover when adding so much more coal on the fire? I’ve read about people leaving an open flame somewhere in the box but is that possible to do with the added amount you’re loading in or do you just fill it without a problem?



Not sure what you mean by "Flashover" but coal fires are not like wood fires in that the amount of coal you add has little to do with the size/heat of the fire. This is done by controlling the amount of air provided to the fire. 2nd, adding another layer of firebrick does not allow for that much more coal to be loaded in the stove due to the static height of the window bars which merely allow you to slope more coal towards the back, & thus give you a bit more coal for a longer fire. The main benefit of adding firebrick is to make loading easier,( especially if top loading) by preventing loose coal from landing on top of the original firebrick.

In re this question:...."I’ve read about people leaving an open flame somewhere in the box but is that possible to do with the added amount you’re loading in or do you just fill it without a problem?".....

You can always leave a section of the coal bed uncovered & flaming when you reload. (practice by doing 1/2 of the fire bed at a time) Then go back in a few minutes (when the freshly covered section is now flaming) & add coal to the untouched area.

In re burning wood fires, especially early & late in the heating season, I rarely do it, but I do occasionally. My simple reason is the lack of wood to burn & the much greater ease of burning coal. Wood stinks up the house, while coal adds no aroma to the air & coal fires are so mush easier to control & keep burning that you will tend to become lazy & prefer to just stick with coal!


I suggest you read the owner's manual to see if your questions are better answered.


Dick
Last edited by Devil505 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Mantis On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:10 pm

Not sure what you mean by "Flashover"


By: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:06 am

This morning I shook the stove and added coal, later I filled it up. I probably added too much coal too soon. I went to take I shower and abt. 10 minutes later my wife said there was some kind of loud pop from the stove. We could also smell combustion around the stove. I think I filled it too soon and some gases built up in the firebox and then ignited.

Any comments?

Thanks.





What this gentleman was referring to happening. I read some people on here calling it a back draft (like the movie) but really it’s called a flashover (sort of). Two similar but very different things going on.

So you just pile on the coal and never had this sort of thing happen or do you leave a section of flame?

Thank you for the owners manual., very cool!
Mantis
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC2000
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut/Private mine IDK

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:27 pm

Mantis wrote:What this gentleman was referring to happening. I read some people on here calling it a back draft (like the movie) but really it’s called a flashover (sort of). Two similar but very different things going on.

So you just pile on the coal and never had this sort of thing happen or do you leave a section of flame?




What John (Wood'nCoal ) was referring to many people call a "puff-back" but whatever you call it is a small explosion caused by the sudden ignition of unburned volatile gases from fresh coal. (this is why you should screw your stove pipes together with 3 screws per section)
I'm not a physicist & others may be able to explain it better but, if you leave a small section of the fire uncovered (with new coal) & slightly flaming, you will avoid these puff-backs through the controlled & low burning of these gases.
That said, many people here (including Richard I think) never gets any puff-backs & can just dump as much fresh coal onto their fires as they can fit. I guess it depends on you particular stove/chimney setup but mine needs to watch out for volatils.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Mantis On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:45 pm

mine needs to watch out for volatils.
That's what I was lookin for thanks D!

So coal adds no aroma to a house eh? interesting! That’s very good to hear as I’m a bow hunter and have a strict scent control regiment. I was seriously worried I would smell like a coal miners daughter in the deer woods and blow all chances at mature whitetail from here on out. So how is it that hardwood stinks and coal does not? Please do tell.
Mantis
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC2000
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut/Private mine IDK

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:03 pm

Mantis wrote:So coal adds no aroma to a house eh? interesting! That’s very good to hear as I’m a bow hunter and have a strict scent control regiment. I was seriously worried I would smell like a coal miners daughter in the deer woods and blow all chances at mature whitetail from here on out. So how is it that hardwood stinks and coal does not? Please do tell.



When your coal stove is burning correctly it will give off no odors at all &, if you look up at your chimney top, you will see no smoke whatsoever! The only time you may detect a slight "sulfur" type smell is on warm days when your draft is not good, but this should be rare & can be solved by increasing the fire/draft.
Why wood smells & coal doesn't probably has more to due with the nature of wood vs coal itself, but you will definetley know when you have a wood fire burning! :D A coal fire will only be detectable by the nice steady warmth you will feel! (& the extra weight of your wallet with all the extra money you will be saving!) :lol:
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:58 pm

Mantis wrote:So how is it that hardwood stinks and coal does not? Please do tell.


I'd suggest wood just has a more overpowering odor that is noticeable and prevalent and coal does not. There is no visible smoke when burning anthracite coal. The smell you will get is a sulfury odor but its not overpowering and if you have a proper draft you won't smell this much at all when you open the door. If there was no sulfur in coal it would probably be odorless. A little bit of wood smoke is going to permeate the entire house in a short time whereas the same amount of coal "smoke" will simply dissipate. If you do smell anything in your house then you have a problem. ;)
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Mantis On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:24 pm

That's fantastic guys, very cool to hear!

One more question comes to mind. When you all switched to coal for the first time. Did everyone you told look at you strange and say "coal is stinky and dirty." and "what are you thinking?" or the likes? The others not saying a word but thinking it? :roll:
Mantis
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC2000
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut/Private mine IDK

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:48 pm

People still say those things to me...in the midst of these record fuel prices, I have tried to get people to consider burning coal. I was only able to convert one person, my dad. Even he wouldn't have considered it if I hadn't shown him my stove in action last winter. He was absolutely amazed at the heat output, 12 hour burn times, and complete lack of smoke.

Everyone around here is buying pellet stoves or wood boilers.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:58 pm

Mantis wrote:One more question comes to mind. When you all switched to coal for the first time. Did everyone you told look at you strange and say "coal is stinky and dirty." and "what are you thinking?" or the likes?



Not really. I bought my first coal stove i n the early 1980's (A Better N' Bens) & they were more popular back then. My neighbor bought a Pro Forma Z I think it was called, but stopped using it after a few years. I have never gone back & with the ridiculous home heating prices of today........I am very glad! :D

I'm getting the feeling that your current excitement will only grow, once you realize the money you are saving & the fact that you will actually be warmer for a small fraction of the price others are paying! (there's also nothing like the comfort of seeing a stack of bagged coal or a full coal bin, paid for & ready for the winter...regardless of power failures/storms!)




It becomes a challenge & hobby for most of us here! :devil:
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Last edited by Devil505 on Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:00 pm

One important point I forgot to make Fran, is that if you stick around for a while you will see that we are really like a coal burning family here....A band of "Anthracite Brothers" who like nothing more than to help each other & new people with their coal burning questions/problems.
I happen to be one of the resident "old pro's" in re the Harman TLC2000, but, if you read some of the "Off Topic" threads, you will see that many of my "brothers" here are politically (intellectually) challenged & therefore rely heavily on me for their political guidance too! :lol:

Stick around...We have fun here! :devil:
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Mantis On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:33 pm

:D I'm not going anywhere, you guys are stuck with me for the long haul. I imagine this site gets alot of one post wonders but that wont be the case here. I can tell from your post count you've got something besides hot coal air in that head of yours. Someday maybe when you slow down and I learn more than you've forgotten, I'll be able to pass the fire along.

Do any of you guys know a website I can learn the ins and outs of building a chimney? I've got a few friends and co workers that know their stuff giving me a hand but would like to be on track. I'm thinking 16x16 block with 8x8 flue.

Maybe this can be answered here, what do I want, solid block or cored?
Mantis
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC2000
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut/Private mine IDK

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:52 pm

The Chimney block are formed to stack with the flue liner inside.. I can't imagine anyone building a chimney with solid block,, it would not only cost a lot more,, but it would take 4x as long to build..

I built my own chimney, just stacked the preformed block, and every 3-4 blocks put in the clay liner.. then stacked another 3-4 block.. Did it all myself.. it's just work,,

Greg L..

You may find info about chimneys on http://www.hearth.com I've not looked for chimney info..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:18 pm

You could use this type of system also about $60/foot for 8" id chimney
http://www.isokern.net/pages/chim/dmsys.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

Cheaper than SS Class A and lasts longer.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Harman TLC-2000 questions, comments, ramblings

PostBy: Mantis On: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:00 pm

Greg, Hello and when I was pricing chimney block the man behind the counter, when I asked the price of their 16X16 chimney block asked me; solid or cored. I didn't know what he was talking about so I said price for both. 6.29 for cored, 6.49 for solid. I was thinking it had something to do with the outer holes around the 8x8 flue hole vs no holes just the 8x8. Does this make sence. I'm clueless sorrry.


Devil, sweet pic. Looks like the same bags my stove dealer has for sale. There price is 300. a pallet which I thought was a bit steep considering the prices I've seen some of the members paying. I can buy bulk of the same make for 225 a ton but have to build a bin of course. Also the dealer said that a pallet works out to be a ton and a quarter. Is this accurate or a sales pitch? Just to get an idea of storage area, how much tonage/pallets is in that stack. I've got a walk out basement with an overhead porch which I plan on stacking my bags under if I go that route.
Mantis
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman TLC2000
Coal Size/Type: Chesnut/Private mine IDK

Visit Hitzer Stoves