Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:38 am

Every new barrel of oil introduced to the world from non OPEC countries merely results in a lowering of OPEC's production by the same amount, to keep demand & prices high. (Google this yourself.)
Thus, the oil company's & Republican's BS about being able to "drill our way" to lower oil prices is just a "Fool's Errand" & guess who they think are the fools?

One link:
http://www.automotivedigest.com/view_art.asp?articlesID=7423
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
Devil505
 
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:32 pm

From a short term perspective, that may be correct. One other longer term view to consider is that OPEC would like to keep their oil prices low enough to discourage our own oil production as well as other technology from being developed. If we say we are willing to start offshore drilling or recovering oil shale deposits or developing wind & solar because it is now economically advantageous at $130 / barrel they take notice. They certainly don't want us to wean ourselves off their oil.
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:46 pm

titleist1 wrote:From a short term perspective, that may be correct. One other longer term view to consider is that OPEC would like to keep their oil prices low enough to discourage our own oil production as well as other technology from being developed. If we say we are willing to start offshore drilling or recovering oil shale deposits or developing wind & solar because it is now economically advantageous at $130 / barrel they take notice. They certainly don't want us to wean ourselves off their oil.



If you get a chance, I suggest you listen to Sen. Obama's energy speech today in which he challenges this country to become energy independent of middle eastern oil within ten years! Very doable & reminiscent of JFK's Moon challenge of the early 1960's!
(You should be able to watch it at CPAN.org)
Devil505
 
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:27 pm

One of the point you're missing here Devil beside lowering costs is for every drop of oil we produce ourselves that's one less we need from someone else. In addition to many other things producing our own oil is certainly part of the equation. If you want an eye opener it's possible the largest oil field in the world could be right off our shores but because they can't even do exploratory drilling we'd never know it.
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:37 pm

Richard S. wrote:One of the point you're missing here Devil beside lowering costs is for every drop of oil we produce ourselves that's one less we need from someone else.


But OPEC will just keep raising the price on the oil we will always have to buy from them, & the price will stay high. As long as our economy is based on oil, even the oil man T. Boone Pickens admits that we can't "drill our way" out of this problem.


Richard S. wrote:it's possible the largest oil field in the world could be right off our shores but because they can't even do exploratory drilling we'd never know it.


It's also possible that is just a "fairy tale" conjured up by Exxon-Mobil to get what they want & deflect criticism over oil prices & profits. (Point your finger & convince everyone that the "Boogie Man" is the real problem.....& old tactic in political science)
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:41 pm

Every drop of oil we produce ourselves is one less we need from foreign oil, its a simple fact. By itself drilling offshore is not going to solve our problems but it can't hurt either. As far as the "Fairy tale" I haven't heard anyone suggest it is there because no one knows which is the point.
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:49 pm

Richard S. wrote:Every drop of oil we produce ourselves is one less we need from foreign oil, its a simple fact.



OK...Let's try this hypothetical:

We (the US) need 2 barrels of oil.
Opec is charging $150.00/barrel
Our own oil we an buy for $100.00
We buy 1 barrel or own oil (all we have, but remember...we need 2 barrels)

BUT

Then OPEC raises their price to $200.00/barrel


Net result: 2 barrels of oil have cost us exactly what we would have paid to OPEC in the first place......$300.00
Last edited by Devil505 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:58 pm

Yes but in the meantime as we move forward with new technologies our need for foreign oil becomes smaller and we no longer need it as much from them. Eventually you'll hit a point where you can flip them the bird and say no thanks. ;)
Richard S.
 
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:09 pm

Richard S. wrote:Yes but in the meantime as we move forward with new technologies our need for foreign oil becomes smaller and we no longer need it as much from them. Eventually you'll hit a point where you can flip them the bird and say no thanks. ;)


Agreed Richard...but that necessitates us becoming energy independent of middle eastern oil completely. A plan Sen. Obama announced today would "wean us off" their oil within 10 years. (Allot more believable, IMO... from a non-oil man like Obama than it is from a 26 year Washington DC, fixture like John McCain who conveniently & suddenly has discovered the need for energy independence but still gets major funding from his oil company buddies)
Last edited by Devil505 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:37 pm

Weaning us off foriegn oil within 10 years especially without bringing new oil into the supply chain is the biggest fairy tale of them all. Do you think all the new cars going on the market now are going to disappear? What about the millions of trucks, trains etc..... :lol: Whats he going to do outlaw them? Maybe propose stricter environmental legislation outlawing inefficient vehicles... It's impossible. If they marketed a car right now that used no oil for energy it would take 2 decdes before it saturated the market and that's beside the fact they don't have one even let alone large transportation vehicles.

That's not weaning, that's taking drastic measures that will inevitably destroy the American way of life. The infrastucture for oil has been built up over the last century, it has evolved with oil. Replacing it with something else in a decade is a pipe dream and very dangerous one at that..
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: spc On: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:58 pm

I would rather buy oil made (drilled) in the USA. :)
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: chemung On: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:19 am

Right now our (U.S.) national security concerning energy is in jeopardy.

Oil production has been on the decline since 2005. The emergence of India and China has placed increasing demand on a depleting source.

Our present dependence on foreign oil is an extreme risk to our national security. Risks like having to transport oil from it's origin to here. Having no direct control of energy costs and issues that affect the price. And did I mention the reliability of our present sources coming from the Middle East and countries considered unstable or unfriendly.

Do any of you remember why Japan invaded the US? ENERGY, coal, rubber, oil, etc. At that time Japan was emerging and industrializing. She began expanding through out Southeast Asia. Only one Naval Force was considered a threat to her so Japan planned the attack of Pearl Harbor.

Increased drilling and refining of domestic oil and the development of wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, biofuels are a few things we can do to make us energy secure. Another is to make the development of clean coal technologies a national priority.

Along with developing the energy sources available to us today we also need to involve private and national laboratories and technology centers financed by or under the Department of Energy researching innovative energy ideas.

This is not a political issue. It does not matter if either the old man or the empty suit said it first. It is a matter of our national security and our sovereignty.
chemung
 

Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:48 am

Richard S. wrote:Weaning us off foriegn oil within 10 years especially without bringing new oil into the supply chain is the biggest fairy tale of them all. Do you think all the new cars going on the market now are going to disappear? What about the millions of trucks, trains etc..... :lol: Whats he going to do outlaw them? Maybe propose stricter environmental legislation outlawing inefficient vehicles... It's impossible. If they marketed a car right now that used no oil for energy it would take 2 decdes before it saturated the market and that's beside the fact they don't have one even let alone large transportation vehicles.

That's not weaning, that's taking drastic measures that will inevitably destroy the American way of life. The infrastucture for oil has been built up over the last century, it has evolved with oil. Replacing it with something else in a decade is a pipe dream and very dangerous one at that..




I suggest you goto CSPAN.org & listen to Obama's energy speech in Michigan yesterday. He was very specific how we'll do it.
(Your argument is that "it's just to hard to kick the oil habit"..........I don't buy it.....If we can put men on the Moon, we can solve our energy problems too!)
Last edited by Devil505 on Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:51 am

spc wrote:I would rather buy oil made (drilled) in the USA. :)


Obama's plan will get us off oil dependence completely. Listen to it....CSPAN.org

We can't drill our way out of this problem!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
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Re: Fallacy of More Oil Drilling

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:58 am

chemung wrote:Right now our (U.S.) national security concerning energy is in jeopardy.

Oil production has been on the decline since 2005. The emergence of India and China has placed increasing demand on a depleting source.

Our present dependence on foreign oil is an extreme risk to our national security. Risks like having to transport oil from it's origin to here. Having no direct control of energy costs and issues that affect the price. And did I mention the reliability of our present sources coming from the Middle East and countries considered unstable or unfriendly.

Do any of you remember why Japan invaded the US? ENERGY, coal, rubber, oil, etc. At that time Japan was emerging and industrializing. She began expanding through out Southeast Asia. Only one Naval Force was considered a threat to her so Japan planned the attack of Pearl Harbor.

Increased drilling and refining of domestic oil and the development of wind, solar, nuclear, hydro, biofuels are a few things we can do to make us energy secure. Another is to make the development of clean coal technologies a national priority.

Along with developing the energy sources available to us today we also need to involve private and national laboratories and technology centers financed by or under the Department of Energy researching innovative energy ideas.

This is not a political issue. It does not matter if either the old man or the empty suit said it first. It is a matter of our national security and our sovereignty.



You are right, but drilling will only provide a small & short term security boost which Obama is willing to do as a compromise to get his broader energy plan adopted. As T. Boone Pickens & Obama say, we can't drill our way out of this problem. We have to replace oil as our main energy source in this country. (Something Exxon-Mobil doesn't like to hear!)
Oil is only one source of energy, and we have allowed ourselves to get "hooked" on it! There are others &, if any country on earth is smart enough to "kick the oil habit".....We are!
Devil505
 
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