Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: ashburnham55 On: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:06 pm

I was looking through older post and came across some members that stated that it would be deadly to use a barometric damper on a direct vent stove and have also read a few posts (with pictures) that had the same stove as I have that were using a baro damper. Could some explain this to me? Not quite sure what to do.

I am new to this forum and have a lot to learn before I can lite my stove safely for the first time. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
ashburnham55
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Crown 112
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Magee

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:21 pm

Perhaps they were running PVs? You can use a baro on a PV but not a DV. The DV puts the stovepipe under pressure and the baro would bleed CO. A power vent pulls a vacuum (negative draft) in the stovepipe, a baro would limit the maximum draft of the power vent.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: ashburnham55 On: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:35 pm

so I should just install rheostat on the direct vent motor and install a manometer to adjust the draft ??
ashburnham55
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Crown 112
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Magee


Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: traderfjp On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:00 am

I have a rheostat on my DV stove and a barometric damper right before the DV unit. This should prevent hopper fires and is the main reason I installed it on my stove. I really didn't see a difference in coal usage.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:59 am

A DV is mounted ON the stove,, there is no place to put a barometric damper between the stove and the DV..A DV pushes the exhaust out of the flue pipe, so a Barometric damper would leak CO and exhaust into the house..
A powervent [PV] is mounted in the wall, and it SUCKS the exhaust out of the stove..The flue pipe between the stove and the PV is under a slight vacuum, just like a chimney, so a barometric damper can be installed between the stove and the PV.. a barometric damper only works under a negative pressure, or slight vacuum.

PV= negative pressure in flue, wall mounted
DV= positive pressure in flue, stove mounted

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: traderfjp On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:11 am

My setup has the baro attached to the stove and then the DV is attached to the baro. A perfect setup.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:10 pm

Yes, if there is enough room, you can put the Baro BEFORE the Direct Vent, you want to make sure the Baro is always on the "suction" side of the DV or PV. Also, the DV you have to SEAL your pipe joints up really well, otherwise, the gases can seep thru the joints, since the pipe is pressurized....

I have a Manometer tubed from the side of the stove to check the draft of my DV, I can adjust the intake to the DV with a slider plate.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: traderfjp On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:24 pm

I used aluminum tape. It is a nice tight seal. I love having a Baro. I also had to seal the venturi hole for the direct vent. My stove is tricked out.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: ashburnham55 On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:23 pm

I don't have much room at all behind the stove so I will skip the baro damper if I can do without safely. My biggest fear is installing this wrong, so I am going slow and trying to find out everything possible before I finish the Install. I have mostly completed the hearth but have not put the stove in place.

I have a small hole in the top left hand side of the stove and was put there at the factory. This hole is about a 1/4 in diameter and has a small metal compression button cover closing it off. Not quite sure what this is for. Is this where you would insert a manometer tube ??
ashburnham55
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Crown 112
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Magee

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: PelletstoCoal On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:24 pm

I guess the question is wether your stove is designed as a "direct vent" or a power vented appliance. If it is a true direct vent the baro is a null point. I have harman dvc-500 which is a true direct vented appliance. In my scenario, the draft blower is controled via a microprocessor/pressure sensor to ensure proper draft during different levels of combustion (i.e. idel thru 90K). One thing to consider is that if a baro is used and you loose power, the stove will go out obviously, but not until some of the exhaust flows back into the room? If plumbed as a direct vent appliance all pipes are sealed and no exhaust enters the home. Just some thoughts. Might be something you already know, but remember to get a good CO detector.

Good luck
PelletstoCoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman DVC-500

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: ashburnham55 On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:11 pm

Never thought about a power failure with a baro damper on a dv stove .. Makes sense that CO would be pulled through the baro into the house before the fire finally died .. I will stay away from the baro damper. As for checking the draft, I 'm not sure if the Alaska direct vent motor has that type micro processor safety control feature or any other control for that matter. I will have to call Alaska and ask them. If not I will have to install a manometer and a rheostat to control the draft.

I have a long way to go....

Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate all the help and the availability to search this forum for answers.
ashburnham55
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Crown 112
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Magee

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: traderfjp On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:26 pm

Ash: It's not that difficult to install the stove yourself but if you’re not comfortable then let your dealer do it. I have the Channing stove too. If the electricity went out the fire would go out extremely fast and if some fumes went into the house it wouldn't be enough to get anyone sick. It might smell a little. I use to turn my stove off when I did the ash pan and the fire would sometimes go out and I don't ever recall smelling fumes. Also, the baro will keep you safe from a hopper fire. If you're concenred about power failure as I am you can get yourself an inverter so you can use your car as a generator in case your stove goes out in the middle of the winter. I looked into a gas generator but they eat gas like crazy and I didn't see a safe way to store so much fuel. A propane generator is best but they are not cheap either.

1. Load rice coal into the hopper and make sure you always leave the top on the hopper. This is a safety concern.

2. Set the feed rate. The feed rate is controlled by the larger of the two boxes that came with your stove. You have a low, 1-5 and high setting. The feed rate controls how much coal is pushed on to the grate (the large, flat cast iron piece inside your stove with the little holes in it). The feed motor is a timer. If you listen closely when the stove is running you will hear it move and then shut off. Air is blown through the holes in your grate which keeps the fire going.

Coal is hard to light and without lots of oxygen it will go out quickly. Try this: Take a hand-full of coal and put it into a metal container and then use a torch to light it. The coal will not light. You'll get a few red pieces of coal but that is it.

Anyway, the coal is pushed on to the grate with an auger that is mounted where the hopper meets the grate. When you turn the feed rate to 5 you're pushing lots of coal on to the grate and thus you will have more heat. When you put the feed rate on 1 the frequency of how often the auger is engaged and loading coal on to your grate is diminished. So in essence the feed rate box is much like your thermostat. If it's 45 degrees outside you can probably run the stove at 1-2. If it is 10 degrees outside you be turning the feed rate up to 3-4 (depending on the size of your house and how it's insulated).

3. Once you light your stove you become a fire tender. This means that you have to make sure you keep coal in the hopper. I try not to let it get less than 1/2 full and you must empty the ash pan which is loads of fun. On very cold days you’ll empty the ash pan every 1-2 days and can go up to 5-6 days on low. Make sure you wear a respirator and not a cloth face mask when emptying the pan. Fly ash (coal ash) is very acidic and if you breathe it in it will irritate your lungs plus it has heavy metals and god knows what other thingies in it that you shouldn't breathe.

4. Maintenance: Your job is to make sure that the stove is working well. The nice thing with a baro is that I can stick the shop vac into the baro opening and suck most of the fly ash out of the DV pipe. With out it you need to remove the vent pipe and clean it out. I would say you should do a good cleaning twice a season and then summerize the stove at the end of the heating season.

5. Knowing your stove. The DV or direct vent unit is a motor that creates a vacuum inside the vent pipe and draws the exhaust outside your home. The hotter the fire the more exhaust gases you will produce. A low fire will have fewer fumes to exhaust. That is why a rheostat is nice to have on a DV. It will allow you to run the DV motor to match the amount of exhaust gases that need to be removed. The DV is setup so it's always pulling at full force since Alaska has to make sure that if you run the stove at high the DV can handle the evacuation of all the exhaust gases. A rheostat allows you to idle down the motor to match the fire. However, you can get into trouble if you turn it down low and then run your stove on high. A baro and a Manometer also allows you to set and monitor the draft so all is good. The draft is the amount of pull from the DV unit.

The other blower pushes the air from the room across the metal on your stove. It cools your stove and the heat is transferred to the air which heats the room. You’ll get a great amount of heat from convention too.

Make sure that you install your stove in a central location.

This all sounds intimidating because you're new. I had many sleepless nights running the stove because I was afraid of a fire or something going wrong.

Also, make sure you install the stove with the clearances suggested by Alaska, install the stove on a fire proof base, and have a fire extinguisher close by with plenty of CO2 and fire detectors around the house.

You’ll have to decide the best way to setup your stove. If you’re not sure then get a pro to do it for you.
Last edited by traderfjp on Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: ashburnham55 On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:07 pm

I don't know where to start to thank you. By searching through all the post for "Channing" I have seen pictures of your stove and would agree that your stove is "tricked out" I believe that I have the same stove including color that you have. Unfortunately, the information that came with the stove is very vague and covers multiple models.
I am pretty comfortable with installing this stove but need to investigate what the right set up for is. I have sweat copper pipe, installed shower valves, bled boilers, changed PRVs, built decks, installed carpet and linoleum.. well you get it... I am far from an expert on anything but I am smart enough to ask first. I just have to check every thing out first and install second. As for my setup, I have a 1100 square ft very well insulated home that is only 10 years old . I am installing it in my living room and plan on slightly heating my unfinished basement with a dhw coil but I am trying to stay focus on just installing the stove for now. I am sure that I will be asking a lot of questions over the next few months or years...Thanks again
ashburnham55
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Crown 112
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Magee

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: traderfjp On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:21 pm

I'm glad to help. LS Farm and some of the pioneers of this group are the experts. I've been at this for two years and love learning so................I was just kidding when I said my stove was tricked out it just has a few enhancments that wouldn't be possible without me annoying eveyone here with many questions and trying to figure it all out. I love my Channing stove and coal (go figure) for the warmth it brings my family and I just like the idea of burning a rock like material that is millions of years old. Everyone here is very helpfull so you'll have lots of help installing that stove.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Barometric damper for a direct vent stove ??

PostBy: ashburnham55 On: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:31 pm

Here is question that I have.
How many sq feet are you heating and much coal did burn last yea
ashburnham55
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Crown 112
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Magee