Copper Water Coils - Why Not ??

 
JJLL
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon. Oct. 15, 2007 12:16 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-360 Boiler

Post by JJLL » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 2:13 pm

I have water coils in my stove made out of stainless steel.

My question is, why aren't they made out of copper? Copper can be bent with minimum kinks, if water is constantly running through it, the piping shouldn't get hot enough to even set off a pressure relief valve?

So I'm just wondering why I never hear/read of people using copper water coils inside of coal stoves?

Any takers?


 
User avatar
Devil505
Member
Posts: 7102
Joined: Tue. Jul. 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post by Devil505 » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 2:26 pm

Because they'd melt the second water stopped flowing through them, would be my guess.

 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13761
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 2:33 pm

Even if it won't melt because its full of water moving all the time and pulling out the heat, it would work harden over time and crack quite easily. Malleable metals don't have a big tolerance for high temps.

 
BIG BEAM
Member
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri. Jan. 25, 2008 9:34 am
Location: upstate NY

Post by BIG BEAM » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 3:02 pm

I made a copper coil for my ulefos wood stove years ago, even the return bends were soldered with 95/5.I used it for DHW in a 40 gals stone lined storage tank right behind the stove.I used it for 9 years and it looked like new when I took it out.
BTW it was a gravity system,no circulators.
DON

 
User avatar
Devil505
Member
Posts: 7102
Joined: Tue. Jul. 03, 2007 10:44 pm
Location: SE Massachusetts

Post by Devil505 » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 3:10 pm

BIG BEAM wrote:I used it for 9 years and it looked like new when I took it out.
LOL...Made fools out of us, eh Coaledsweat?!? :lol: :lol:

 
User avatar
jpen1
Member
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat. Nov. 04, 2006 4:46 pm
Location: Bloomsburg, PA
Stoker Coal Boiler: LL110
Coal Size/Type: Rice/ Buck

Post by jpen1 » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 3:20 pm

It will work in a wood stove but with coal the nitric and sulphuric acid in the flue gases and fly ash respectively will eat copper within a very short time. Just like people that have acidic potable water usually have problems with there copperpipes developing pin holes over time but the heat accelerates the process.

 
BIG BEAM
Member
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri. Jan. 25, 2008 9:34 am
Location: upstate NY

Post by BIG BEAM » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 3:42 pm

And this coil was about 6" above the top of the wood when loaded.It made LOTS of HW.The top of the tank was 190F and the return water( bottom of the tank would cool to 150F ish.Tank had no insul I thought heat lost in the house was not lost.I used a tankless coil in the boiler in the summer.
DON


 
BIG BEAM
Member
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri. Jan. 25, 2008 9:34 am
Location: upstate NY

Post by BIG BEAM » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 3:48 pm

jpen1 wrote:It will work in a wood stove but with coal the nitric and sulphuric acid in the flue gases and fly ash respectively will eat copper within a very short time. Just like people that have acidic potable water usually have problems with there copperpipes developing pin holes over time but the heat accelerates the process.
That may be true with the acids,But most of the pin holes I've seen in copper pipes was because they used M copper tube for water lines.L copper tube is for domestic water and K for under ground.I bet if you could find some thick fittings and used K copper tube it would last a long time.Just a guess.
DON

 
BIG BEAM
Member
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri. Jan. 25, 2008 9:34 am
Location: upstate NY

Post by BIG BEAM » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 3:58 pm

I'm trying to remember if a thing caller a crows foot was made out of copper or iron pipe.They were used in coal and oil furnaces to make DHW and then you would set up a range boiler(type of storage tank I used on my wood stove set up)for DHW.
This was back in the 20's and 30's.
BTW my grandfather and father were plumbers as I am.And I'm 54 yrs. old
DON

 
BIG BEAM
Member
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri. Jan. 25, 2008 9:34 am
Location: upstate NY

Post by BIG BEAM » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 4:06 pm

They had to be made of galv pipe because copper wasn't around until 1939 and wasn't widely used until after WW II.Good to get my brain going again.
DON

 
User avatar
coaledsweat
Site Moderator
Posts: 13761
Joined: Fri. Oct. 27, 2006 2:05 pm
Location: Guilford, Connecticut
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Post by coaledsweat » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 4:37 pm

BIG BEAM wrote:I'm trying to remember if a thing caller a crows foot was made out of copper or iron pipe.They were used in coal and oil furnaces to make DHW and then you would set up a range boiler(type of storage tank I used on my wood stove set up)for DHW.
This was back in the 20's and 30's.
BTW my grandfather and father were plumbers as I am.And I'm 54 yrs. old
DON
IIRC they were cast.

 
User avatar
Steve.N
Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu. Feb. 21, 2008 3:26 pm
Location: Crown Point, NY East side of the state about 130 miles above Albany

Post by Steve.N » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 5:46 pm

I built a copper coil that I installed in a hand fired stove and actually had the coil buryied in the coal bed. This provided gravity heat in my living room about 5 years until I installed the central furnace. I silver soldered the joints and never had any leaks or problems.

 
BIG BEAM
Member
Posts: 712
Joined: Fri. Jan. 25, 2008 9:34 am
Location: upstate NY

Post by BIG BEAM » Fri. Aug. 08, 2008 6:20 pm

Yeah coaledsweat I think you're right.Thanks
DON

 
JJLL
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Mon. Oct. 15, 2007 12:16 pm
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF-360 Boiler

Post by JJLL » Sat. Aug. 09, 2008 11:33 am

Interesting discussion.

I've soldered many copper pipes and anyone who has done it will tell you that even if there's the slightest bit of water laying in the pipe, the solder will not hold.

Also, solder melts at roughly 300 °F. Water boils at 212°F In short, your pressure relief valves would blow before the soldering failed.

Now the pipe itself, the thicker the better but I have no idea how the acidity would effect the copper.

The idea of burying the coil in the coal, thats an idea.

 
User avatar
gambler
Member
Posts: 1611
Joined: Mon. Jan. 29, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: western Pa

Post by gambler » Sat. Aug. 09, 2008 11:38 am

Keystoker uses copper water coils! But it looks like it is not in direct contact with the flue gas.

**Broken Link(s) Removed**


Post Reply

Return to “Coal News & General Coal Discussions”