Hitzer 503 Arrives

remnant photos 503

PostBy: VanBuren On: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:17 pm

rest of photos

Auto-Off-Manual Fan Switch.JPG
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Switch has three modes, auto, off and always on i.e. manual
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Behind the Apron.JPG
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notice the ajustable position of the apron
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The damper actually covers 2/3 of exhaust when closed
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this is the air wash vent under lip of door - slides left right like ash pan vent
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stove with gold door
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VanBuren
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: VanBuren On: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:38 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:Always have a couple of working CO alarms.
I will take plenty of pictures for the liner install, including the deconstruction of the pesky metal damper assembly.
The more info everyone puts into the threads the better, why reinvent the wheel!


Cape'

I am particualry interested to see exactly what attachment you use to attach your liner to the stove and if cement/sealer is recomended.

On another note, initially I was planning on using the apron and also further up a plate around the liner. Having spoken with Dean and his comment that an air tight fit is not necessary it seems that the upper plate would trap CO if there was a leak instead of allowing it to naturally gravitate up the chimney.

VB
VanBuren
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: bear creek burnout On: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:07 pm

I just purchased a Hitzer 503 insert which may be delivered next week or the week after. I certainly don't know anything about the installation process so I am relying on the dealer and his install crew. I will more than likely have them install a liner...better now than have to get them back on Christmas Eve :x . Thanks for all the pics....and your experiences....it all led me to make a very quick decision. I was leaning toward an EFM 520 boiler but I just couldn't make that leap of faith and let go of my Peerless oil hog. Since I have 2 fireplaces...one of which has a propane insert....it was a perfect fit untill I can embrace the coal boiler option. The 503 will probably heat 2 of my 4 zones very comfortably and replace that propane sissy make believe "stove". Besides I need the propane for my auto generator. I'll try to get some pics up when it all starts to come together.
Again....thanks to all.
bear creek burnout
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503 Insert

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: Slogo On: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:06 pm

First off I would like to thank VanBuren for his comments on the operation of the Hitzer 503. I also had questions about the operation of the new damper control and the air wash control and now I have a better understanding of where the settings should be.

Just had my 503 installed this week by a Hitzer dealer. Was going to have the liner go all the way up the chimney but because of sloppy work by the mason that built the chimney. He did not clean the excess cement from the inside of the flue so the 6" X 11" flue was reduced to 4" X 9" at some points. So the installers had to put in a 5ft flex liner up past the fire box. The liner just slipped into the top of the 503 and was secured with screws.

Razzler mentioned that with his brotherinlaws install they just slipped the insert in the fireplace and did not put in any liner at all. I'm just a nubie but I believe that at least a 5ft liner is required to be run up past the firebox. I don't believe that Burce stated that you do not need a liner just that it does not need to be sealed.
Slogo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:28 pm


http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=65
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

The liner should be arriving soon with all the assorted parts.
You will get some pics of how it all goes together!
Just going to use 3 hex screws no sealants unless there is the need.
Have some of my handy computer screw/hex drivers so I can do the job properly.
I do not like just one screw in the liner as this will be running all winter providing the majority of the house heat.
Think about adding temperature probes and manometer lines before it all goes together!
The top of the flue is capped so no gasses will escape upwards only outwards.

http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=351
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.

I have a full liner to the top.
Going to stuff the damper area with the excess liner insulation to reduce a thermal loop from stealing too much heat.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: Razzler On: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:40 pm

VanBuren wrote:He said a lot of people worry about that and he says it is unimportant. In fact he has a stove in his house for 20 odd years with nothing more than the stove itself - gas is going to rise up unless you have a blockage. An obsession therefore with a air tight seal is just not that important he says


I was thinking on the same lines as you, there should be a 5' to 6' piece pipe but the dealer told him it wasn't needed. From what Dean @ Hitzer told VanBuren preety much matches. The 983 is a bigger insert and has only a inch or two clearance on the top.Theres no flang on the top for a pipe like the 503 has so no way to really fasten it ether.
Razzler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Coal Size/Type: Buck

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:30 pm

If you are doing just the 5 foot liner to the flue and not a full liner then....
The front seal at the fireplace wall is critical if you do not seal at the damper.
If excess air gets into the flue it will cool the flue resulting in a possible back draft during less than optimal conditions.
I like the idea of a damper seal.
You make that seal once, make it good and tight because you will not be breaking it every time you service the insert.
If you seal at the fireplace front you will need to make it pretty because it may be visible.
Pretty is not always as effective as the hidden overbuilt seal in the damper!
The gap between the bottom of the insert and the hearth is what concerns me.
I chose to go for the full liner.
One reason is so I do not worry about exhaust leakage into a fairly tight house.
The chimney is not efficient as it is outside the building envelope and on the north side.
Has a 12 by 12 flue tile bad draft for the stove but plenty of room for the liner and insulation blanket.
No issue with a damper seal for CO because there is a single piece of liner from the insert to the cap.
The mason will also have staging all setup so access to the chimney will be a breeze.
I also tend to over design projects so....keep that in mind, it makes me feel safer so it is worth the small expense!
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: VanBuren On: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:09 am

chimney parts.png
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chimney terms and parts
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Cape' et All,

thanks for excellent info - this thread is going to be more informative than hitzer's own site for the 503. I think your setup will be similar to what I am planning.

1. I'm planning on a insulated Forever Flex liner from stove to top of chimney - for me I think it's about 35~ feet on a 2 storey Tudor - have to measure that this weekend and examine the existing chimney. Thanks for posting the adapter to stove that's what I'll use also - I had assumed the kits included this but I am thinking not

2. What did you/will you use to seal your damper - home made or you bought an available product that takes care of that. Did you/will you remove your old damper or just seal it with that in place.

3. the apron hitzer ships has insulation included but as is the case with you, I plan to pack in more insulation on sides and maybe top of stove. From what I understand the regular pink stuff is ok for this - I thought it would be necessary to uses special heat resistant stuff ?

4. Was thinking about that also i.e. under the stove there will be a possible small gap that will need to be sealed

5. My ash dump is not flush with floor - slightly elevated - I may remove it to get a flush flat level surface

Found good diagram and am posting here for better comprehension of various terms etc.
VanBuren
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:19 pm

Hold off on insulating the box with 'normal' insulation.
I am only putting high temperature insulation in the damper gap.
I will explain in more detail later on.
Last edited by CapeCoaler on Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: VanBuren On: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:52 pm

Cape' thanks for info below

CapeCoaler wrote:http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=65


I just called the above vendor to ask about the specifics of this adaptor. I asked :

1. how do you create a good seal with stove he said using cement/high temp sealant. I asked if this would be air tight and he confirmed yes.
2. Then I asked on the top i.e. where the liner is inserted into the adaptor, how is that sealed and he confirmed, as would be expected, using the hose ring supplied. I asked if this is an air tight seal and he said "no nor does it have to be that the chimney will suck anything right up" i.e. it's not going to leak there. also this adaptor he confirmed comes with their kits

Very helpful and nice people to deal with. Am so accustomed to rude and unhelpful people in NYC that calling around the country as I have been doing is like a vacation back to Ireland where I am from.
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stove connector
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VanBuren
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:05 pm

Prep work in the fire box.
Old damper parts are in the way...
So away they go.
The damper clearance was tight, 5.75 inches, even with the damper removed.
The castings for the prop bar are centered and in the way.
Wanted to have the insulation run all the way to the stove...
And not put any holes in the liner while pulling it through the damper!
Sawzall, 4.5 inch grinder,face shield, ear plugs and a vac.
Had to clear all the crap that had piled up on the smoke shelf.
Slice the extra material and then grind it smooth.
Tight work area and made the opening 10 inches wide for good measure.
There is now 7.25 inches of clearance.
Attachments
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The problem.
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The solution.
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Different view.
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The tools.
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CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: VanBuren On: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:39 am

Cape'

these are great photos - thanks for posting - I am in similar setup and plan to cut the damper with a grinder and remove one brick. I was second guessing if I was crazy but there is no physical alternative. Am relieved to see you have similar scenario. Photo below of my planned alterations. I won't have much clearance just a little more than the 6 inches. Photo may not be clear but gives you some idea.

I had planned to use an oval liner to accomodate the insulation but a vendor advised that they don't reccomend oval or square. Apparently it interferes with the natural swirl of the smoke upward i.e. it is not uniform. In my case therefore I am going uninisulated. he further advised that if I cap the chimney sorround at the top then air will be trapped in the flue and act as some sort of insulation.

Keep the photos coming Cape' as you have them please - very useful for anyone installing now or future - thanks.

VB

damper alterations.jpg
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damper trim+brick removal
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VanBuren
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:26 pm

Yes the trapped air will act as a minor insulation value.
They use it in heat loss calculation but it is fairly minor.
The chat has been about the liner corroding due to the coal exhaust acidity.
I felt it was another reason to insulate.
Keep the gasses from condensing and keep them as hot as possible until they are out of the chimney liner.
I will ask the liner people what they have seen for life expectancy.
As always your mileage may vary!
Wear gloves!Keep the guard on the grinder!Use the face shield! And be aware of the rotation of the grinder...
Work with the natural draft and shoot 'em up the chimney!
OK, I took the guard off! But be careful the metal blade is very efficient at removing flesh!
I cut 1" 'teeth' into the spot I wished to remove with the Sawzall and a metal blade. Then bashed it out with a hammer.
I was then able to cut across the heavier web behind the protruding casting...
So it too would snap off. The whole thing was a single casting cemented in place.
Bash it too hard and ..... bad things can happen.
Get a diamond blade for a 4.5 inch grinder.
I had one that removes the mortar joints, easier to get the brick out cut the joint, not the brick.
But I had enough clearance without removing any brick work.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: VanBuren On: Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:39 pm

Cape'

some good points - yep will try to cut the morter first and hopefully avoid the need to chop the brick. For the lip of the damper I will try two incisions and see if I can bend the rest out but probably a long shot will have to cut it lengthways also. Mine is built in aslo so there is no alternative than to cut it out.

do you happen to know what liner thickness you went for the .006 or the .005 ? one is more flexible but not sure how much less flexible. For me it is just at the end as it enters the fireplace I will need a little bit of flexibility. am looking at the forever flex model.

thanks !
VanBuren
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Hitzer 503 Arrives

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:06 pm

.006 flex king.
The damper shroud is cast and it will not 'bend and break' like steel.
Make it like a picket fence with vertical cuts to a consistent/equal depth, say all cuts 1.5 inches.
Then bang on it and they will snap off close to the bottom of the cuts.
Now you have the rough dimension knocked out and you just grind off the ragged edge till smooth.
You can not get a Sawzall in high enough to get a good long cut.
Snap and grind!
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Visit Hitzer Stoves