Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:47 pm

While I certainly don't begrudge John McCain his $58,000 "disability pension", on top of his $165,000 senate salary.(not to mention the millions his wife is worth) Yet , I can understand why so many veterans groups are angry at him. It doesn't look good that he so strongly opposed the recent hike in veterans benefits.


The real story from real war veterans!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_9sI7hzAc
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:54 am

Already gone over this, he didn't support the bill from the Democrats but did support a bill. Get your facts straight.
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:31 pm

Richard S. wrote:Already gone over this, he didn't support the bill from the Democrats but did support a bill. Get your facts straight.



A watered down, GW Bush favored bill with less veteran's benefits, that still has most veteran's organizations unhappy with him over. He was forced to back "something" for the veterans in an election year, or lose the "Illusion" that he backs our troops! So once again, he backs GW Bush instead of our troops! (Just listen to what the veterans themselves are saying in that "YouTube" piece Richard.)
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:34 pm

The bill he backed wasn't watered down, it stipulated the benefits be given based on the time served instead of qualifying anyone. Prove me wrong.
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:02 pm

Richard S. wrote:he bill he backed wasn't watered down, it stipulated the benefits be given based on the time served instead of qualifying anyone. Prove me wrong.


I don't have to prove you wrong Richard....The veterans themselves are doing that just fine, without my help! :lol: :devil:
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: spc On: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:15 pm

Military Veterans Favor McCain 56% to 37%


http://news.yahoo.com/s/rasmussen/20080725/pl_rasmussen/miltaryveterans20080725
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:26 pm

spc wrote:Military Veterans Favor McCain 56% to 37%


Even if I were to accept those figures as representing the latest poll results (which I don't) it is still nothing for the McCain campaign to be proud of.
Rather, it shows that a Vietnam POW & 26 year US Senator is mistrusted by almost 1/2 of veterans who would rather vote for an unknown newcomer to the American political scene, who is not even the same race as most of them.

& that poll is just a snapshot of the campaign........ Wait until people learn more about the "real" John McCain vs the "real" Barack Obama, & the debates!
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:15 pm

Veterans do have minds of their own.
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: BugsyR On: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:23 am

This data, from a Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey, is based upon interviews with 3,000 Likely Voters, including 588 voters who have served in the military. Voters with no military service favor Obama 50% to 43%.


Quote from same article posted by spc.

My opinion is that polls don't mean much at all. 3000 "likely" voters which include 588 veterans. The only poll that is going to matter happens in November. Those 3000 interviewees isn't enough to people to man an Aircraft Carrier. (In other words...if all 3000 were Vets, that is just a small drop in a very large bucket of Vets)

I fully agree with Richard...Vets do have minds of their own...(sometimes I lose mine but I always just retrace my tracks and eventually run into it somewhere.... :lol: )

As for YouTube...I haven't watched it yet...sooner or later I'll drug myself up with some serious happy pills and hit play on that video...I have this fear that it is filled with a bunch of Vets that have their hands out waiting for something to be given to them....I see a lot of quotes from famous people on this forum....I believe in "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country!"...I believe that guy was a Democrat.
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:10 am

BugsyR wrote:As for YouTube...I haven't watched it yet...sooner or later I'll drug myself up with some serious happy pills and hit play on that video...I have this fear that it is filled with a bunch of Vets that have their hands out waiting for something to be given to them..


My opinion is this: If you have put in a full work week & have your hand out for the wages that you have "earned", then you are not looking for a "gift", but just what is "owed" to you.
This administration demands a tremendous amount from our "Citizen Soldier" armed forces, (including their very lives in many cases), & yet, since most of this administration has never even warn a uniform & comes from rich families, they could really care less about these vets. They pay "Lip Service" to them, just b4 an election, but really treat them like the servants that they grew up with as spoiled little rich kids!
You're selflessness is admirable Mike but as a veteran, you have earned more than just lip service & Sen. McCain "talks a good game" but sides with GW Bush & his phony, privileged Neo-Con buddies when it really matters for the vets.

I have ZERO respect for any of them! I think they are mainly cowards & leeches & when a decorated Vet like McCain throws his lot in with that bunch, I think we all have to question who McCain really is & what are his motives. (which I fear are "I'll say or do anything to get elected.......like a Republican, male version of Hillary Clinton)
Regardless of the McCain campaign "Fairy Tales" about how he supports our military,In reality he is no friend of the Veteran......His Senate voting record proves that & wearing American flag lapel pins, "Navy" baseball caps & beginning each stump sentence with the words "My Friends" is just phony BS for the cameras! :mad3: :devil:
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: BugsyR On: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:48 am

Devil505 wrote: My opinion is this: If you have put in a full work week & have your hand out for the wages that you have "earned", then you are not looking for a "gift", but just what is "owed" to you. I agree with this civilian point of view...but it is not a military point of view....we get paid wages but wages are not what the topic is about...."benefits" are what the topic is about....in the military, benefits are priviledges that you earn and that is what McCain stands for in that bill...earned benefits

This administration demands a tremendous amount from our "Citizen Soldier" armed forces, Every administration since 1984 (when I joined) "demanded a tremendous amount" (this includes Clinton). When you take the vow...it's very serious...at least it should be.(including their very lives in many cases), & yet, since most of this administration has never even warn a uniform & comes from rich families, leads me to ask...explain Clinton and where he was instead of being in uniform when he was of age? I won't call anyone a "draft dodger" (trust me I never called Clinton a dodger...ever) but I will say that he too could have volunteered to serve....but he didn't
they could really care less about these vets. They pay "Lip Service" to them, just b4 an election, but really treat them like the servants that they grew up with as spoiled little rich kids!Your opinion in order to bash a President and a Republican Candidate...so I ask...HOW MANY DAYS DID OUR DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE SPEND IN THE VOLUNTEER MILITARY?....0...None...big fat Goose Egg...Nada...zilch...if you oblong the zero many it narrow up top and bulbous on the bottom it really does look like an egg....sort of like something that comes from a barn yard bird....oh, I'm sorry, I'm suppose to be impressed by social workers....Trust me I am...so that means that there are thousands upon thousands of social workers that are qualified to be the President....what make Obama's Social Work so much more honorable than all the others? Oh yeah...he was in ....Chicago...much more honorable especially after living on the beaches of ....hmmm.....Hawaii....poor kid

You're selflessness is admirable Mike but as a veteran, you have earned more Thanks but I could have done more...but I didn't when I should havethan just lip service & Sen. McCain "talks a good game" but sides with GW Bush & his phony, privileged Neo-Con buddies when it really matters for the vets. Name one Democratic President or Democratic Majority Congress that has been better for the military and Vets than any of the past Republicans...keep it easy for anyone to solve, stay between the years 1966 and 2008. If the Democratic President was great for the military was Congress Republican or Democratic lead?

I have ZERO respect for any of them! We knowI think they are mainly cowards & leeches & when a decorated Vet like McCain throws his lot in with that bunchYour opinion...over and over and over again...in multiple threads...over and over and over again...no matter what topic, I think we all have to question who McCain really is & what are his motives. You're blaming him for something you have no experience with....military and military benefits...and you use a few others' opinions to base your own without doing full research...so being that it agrees with your opinion...it is all you listen to and refuse to even see the other side (which I fear are "I'll say or do anything to get elected.......like a Republican, male version of Hillary ClintonIf this staement was true...McCain would double all military pay and pay for every recruits 4 year degree before they even make it to boot camp..."Sign now, we'll pay for the college of your choice, serve 2 years after graduation, vote for me in November...my name is John McCain and I approve of this message"...I think that would surely win the election for him and then we can meet on this forum and complain about how all our tax dollars that increase are going to pay for all that military education. Look at the facts...by McCain standing in what he believes in it actually saves the tax payer money! Do the time before you earn the golden egg.)
Regardless of the McCain campaign "Fairy Tales" about how he supports our military,In reality he is no friend of the Veteran...(oh yeah...I forgot...Obama and the Democratic Party is sooooo ready to hook up the military...that makes me laugh :lol: :lol: :lol: ...His Senate voting record proves that & wearing American flag lapel pins & "Navy" baseball caps is just phony BS It's called NAVY PRIDE...my name is Mike and I approve of this messagefor the cameras! :mad3: :devil:


I reviewed this and I should have used a different color than red. I used it because it shows up in the bottom left corner when you pull up the color thing. It is not used to show anger at all so please don't take it that way.

BIG POINT THOUGH....I don't think or believe that McCain serving in the military in the past will make him a better President than Obama. I don't think or believe that he deserves to be President just because of his military experience. It is his beliefs on the issues that I support. It is the whole package versus his opponents whole package. I don't want my military past to be confused as to why I am voting for him.
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:20 am

Devil505 wrote:My opinion is this: If you have put in a full work week & have your hand out for the wages that you have "earned", then you are not looking for a "gift", but just what is "owed" to you.


Absolutely correct but what does that have to do with the benefits package? These aren't wages but instead bonuses. Do you think the secretary sitting in the pentagon for his/her entire career should be eligible for the same pay and bonuses the guy sitting in hole in Iraq is getting? Certainly not... That's the point you're missing. These are intended to reward those who are sacrificing a lot. As I mentioned before McCain wanted to put them on a sliding scale, e.g. the longer you were in combat zone the more bonus you got. Sounds logical?

Edit: Let me ask you this Devil... Do think the secretary sitting in the pentagon shuffling papers around should get that same as the grunt in the field? If the answer is no then you agree with McCains point of view. :o
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:27 am

Wow!!....A long reply! :lol:

I don't have time right now to respond to most of your points but let me take the first one that I saw:


BugsyR wrote:I agree with this civilian point of view...but it is not a military point of view....we get paid wages but wages are not what the topic is about...."benefits" are what the topic is about....in the military, benefits are privileges that you earn


Having worked for "Uncle Sam" for most of my life, I would disagree with your thinking in terms of wages & Benefits. Whether civilian or military, when you raise your right hand & swear to defend the "Constitution of the US, against all enemies, foreign or domestic" (as we all did) the government also has its obligation to you in return: That is a package of wage guarantees AND benefits. Benefits are not a privilege, they are part of the "employment contract" both you and the government are agreeing to. "Shore leave" is probably a Navy privilege that can be given or not & is probably earned. Health care is a "benefit" guaranteed to you....not a privilege!
My point is that this administration & John McCain are "short-sheeting" both our active duty personnel & retired vets in terms of the benefits (not privileges) that they are guaranteed by law.

Have to goto an appointment right now Mike, but let me know if you want clarification when I get back.(I kinda rushed this response) :(
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:54 am

Running late here but let me take a quick stab at your question Richard:

Richard S. wrote:Edit: Let me ask you this Devil... Do think the secretary sitting in the pentagon shuffling papers around should get that same as the grunt in the field? If the answer is no then you agree with McCains point of view. :o



I think that secretary is entitled to get any benefits guaranteed to her when she took her job. Obviously, the government has a sliding scale of what actions/situations entitle you to what benefits depending on who you are & what you are doing. These benefits are different for each employee type, but are nonetheless guaranteed by your employmnet.

Example:
When I worked for the IRS, we got paid (bi-weekly) for 40 hours of work each week.
When I worked for DEA, (because we put in such long hours each week) we were entitled to a benefit called "Premium Pay" which was pay for an additional 10 hrs per week.(even though we typically worked 70-80 hours a week! :mad: )
This was not a "privilege", but a guaranteed benefit, based on our type of work. A "privilege" in DEA was that your seniority determined what type of car you would be assigned. The more seniority, the better the car you drove!

side note: Like most criminal investigation branches of the US Gov, when we seized a vehicle (car,boat,plane), if it met certain weight, power requirements we could keep it for Government use. The Boston field office had some great cars when I worked there!! :D ...A Porsche, Cadillacs,anything that would not stand out as a "G-Car" (government car) when used on surveillance or undercover. Naturally, the most senior agents got the best & the junior guys got the crap! :lol: :lol:


Gotta run!
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Re: Why Won't Sen. McCain Support Our Troops?

PostBy: BugsyR On: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:36 pm

Devil505 wrote:Wow!!....A long reply! :lol: Yeah...sorry about that! :lol:


Having worked for "Uncle Sam" for most of my life, I would disagree with your thinking in terms of wages & Benefits. Whether civilian or military, when you raise your right hand & swear to defend the "Constitution of the US, against all enemies, foreign or domestic" (as we all did) the government also has its obligation to you in return: That is a package of wage guarantees AND benefits. Benefits are not a privilege, they are part of the "employment contract" both you and the government are agreeing to. "Shore leave" is probably a Navy privilege that can be given or not & is probably earned. Health care is a "benefit" guaranteed to you....not a privilege!
My point is that this administration & John McCain are "short-sheeting" both our active duty personnel & retired vets in terms of the benefits (not privileges) that they are guaranteed by law.


Focus on what you say "guaranteed by law". It has to pass before it is guaranteed. And, I don't know what it was like for DEA but those "guaranteed by law" benefits are always in jeopardy of future "laws".

I'm thinking I should write as much as possible while you are gone!! :lol:

You make it sound that Bush and McCain are denying benefits to us Vets. I don't know of anyone being denied medical. I know some are being denied full pay (usually happens after they go see the Old Man for doing something stupid....but that has nothing to do with Bush or McCain.... :lol: ). So what legal passed by law benefits are you talking about when you say...
My point is that this administration & John McCain are "short-sheeting" both our active duty personnel & retired vets in terms of the benefits (not privileges) that they are guaranteed by law.
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