Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:35 pm

captcaper wrote:
jrn8265 wrote:During the off season!

Sorry for the double post. I've been having DSL line problems here in rural NH. I can't find a way to delete it.

I've been reading about the SS not holding up and I have a double wall one I installed a few years ago so I've been taking some oil from my trucks oil change and burnt that a few times in a pan stuff with oil and rags in the Harman. It left a hell of a oil like coating to the inside of it so I hope this help slow down the acid burn over the summer. When I restarted the stove this fall I got a good hot wood fire going to burn off the soot/oil film. I checked the outside Tee clean out and it looks good up as far as I can see. If and when I do have a problem I will convert to a Mason chimney.






Olympia Chimney uses 316 ti . They lifetime warranty it for life with coal . If lining a chimney for coal use I would suggest insulating it before installing it. Most calls I hear from people with low draft problems have a lined chimney with no insulation on an outside wall . Usually burning the fire hotter helps .
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: Berlin On: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:12 am

whether those guys warrenty it or not doesn't make it last longer, and I doubt their covering labor. Unless their using significantly thicker steel or a significantly different alloy, you're still looking at around a 5 year replacement schedule. Stainless liners don't hold up with oil or coal and I think that, surprisingly, many of the manufacturers have no idea that their liners just don't last in the field. In the long run (and in some cases short run) the stainless alloys used now won't hold up for oil or coal. Iron particle pitting corrosion on these liners will not care what the warranty says and is something little understood by the mfg's and it's relation to coal use, let alone the sulfur and chlorine attacks that these liners also face.

Having said all that, if someone ABSOLUTELY needs a liner and stainless is the only option (should be the last option), then going with someone like you've mentioned that has a warranty will be smarter than going with a company that offers a vague one or none.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:42 pm

What Berlin said !!!!!

My SS liner lasted 5 years. Read the fine print on warranties. Most of them require a seasonal inspection by "qualified personel" or the warranty is null and void. Seasonal inspection is tough to do when burning all year for DHW. And the warranty DID NOT COVER LABOR.

I ripped out the old liner after discovered it deteriorating and have had no problems since. In fact it was so bad that it collapsed and was partially blocking the chimney. However the manometer revealed adaquate draft until we made arrangements to have the remnants removed.

My personal opinion is that a lot of chimney inspectors do indeed install liners to shift the liability away from them and place that liability on the liner manufacturers. By installing liners they are free and clear if problems develop.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work


Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:29 am

The number one reason for liner installs is the installers bottom line.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: zip On: Sat Dec 11, 2010 10:43 pm

hi just read yor post.had a fire placeset up like yours.Tried to burn coal but fire kept going out.ended up taking out damper rebuilding smoke chamber and put in a 6inch circular flue tile .however fire place flue woud be to big for a draft so I narrowd this dowm to a 4 inch opening on top.No Need to use stainless inserts.This guy is tring to put his hands in your pocket.forgot to mention I have a zurdiac heats the enyire home 1470 sq ft ranch.You may have a problem with draft,if you do,narrow the flue down to 4 inch openingon top Easy way is bulid a fourm 8x8 x4 place a small flower in form upside down then pour concret mix in form .cut of bottom of clay flower pot. should give you 3 to 4 inch opening.concret can now be placed on top of flue.will be heavy enough so wind cant blow it off.
email me if you need further help
zip
zip
 
Stove/Furnace Make: surdiac
Stove/Furnace Model: 512

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:54 am

andrew wrote:We're happy to recommend a Home Saver installer near you.


Hey Andrew, read though this thread and check out the pictures: SS liner woes

Any comments?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:16 am

Yeah, use a powervent! No maintenance or liners or any of that stuff, I read all this chimney stuff and have to rub my eyes as I can't believe you guys make it so complicated. I can't wait for the one hundred posts telling me they never have any problems with their chimneys. 6" hole in the wall, plug it in, use it and in the spring pack it all away. Pssst, no summer humidity problems with the stove either, damprid, motors off, wrap it up and sulfurous acid can't form at that RH, you don't even have to do a thorough cleaning. Pipe problems, go to Lowes and buy another $9 piece of pipe. Whoops, did I enter the wrong church? No stoning at the alter please. Are chimney sweeps part of the mafia and do they employ hit men? It's soooo easy. Of course if motor noise is an issue...... only carpet stoves need apply.... connect through WMV and it's idiot proof.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:43 am

coalnewbie wrote:Yeah, use a powervent! No maintenance or liners or any of that stuff, I read all this chimney stuff and have to rub my eyes as I can't believe you guys make it so complicated. I can't wait for the one hundred posts telling me they never have any problems with their chimneys. 6" hole in the wall, plug it in, use it and in the spring pack it all away. Pssst, no summer humidity problems with the stove either, damprid, motors off, wrap it up and sulfurous acid can't form at that RH, you don't even have to do a thorough cleaning. Pipe problems, go to Lowes and buy another $9 piece of pipe. Whoops, did I enter the wrong church? No stoning at the alter please. Are chimney sweeps part of the mafia and do they employ hit men? It's soooo easy. Of course if motor noise is an issue...... only carpet stoves need apply.... connect through WMV and it's idiot proof.


You really ARE a 'newbie' aren't you?
NO maintenance? are you kidding? just wait, you'll be buying a new Powervent because your's is all corroded up from sitting for a summer full of fly ash.
[try reading the history of Powervents here on the forum]

Simple?? powervents need a manometer, a baro, AND a reostat to control the speed of the vent motor, so yes, it's MORE complicated.

ANd, HOW do you figure there are no summer humidity problems with a PV? Do you have a magic one that hermetically seals itself and the stove??

And what is all this damp rid, plastic etc?? sound like Maintenance to me !!
[you'll learn, probably the hard $$$ way]

And just for grins,, when are you going to look at the siding and paint on your house where the Powervent has stained it with exhaust? or melted the vinyl siding?

And no chimney sweeps needed for a coal burning chimney, Mafia or otherwise, no creosote, no chimney sweeping, but ALL coal burning appliances need the flue pipes and elbows cleaned out at least once per season, or you are risking a clogged exhaust..
[and this includes PowerVented exhaust pipes as well]

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:40 pm

LsFarm wrote:And no chimney sweeps needed for a coal burning chimney, Mafia or otherwise, no creosote, no chimney sweeping,

Have to disagree on that statement. Back in the 1960s my partner and I were called to convert a coal burner to oil. It was a commercial building with a flat roof so very easy to check the chimney. The 8 by 8 flue had a hole down the center about an inch and a half, the rest was fly ash that had set up like concrete. We tried breaking it up with a full length of 1 1/4 iron pipe but could not dent it. So coal chimneys at least need an inspection and quick brushing from time to time. Probably if that chimney had a cap the rain would not have turned the ash to cement.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:05 pm

Got' ya, unusual to say the least, but I could see a wet top 2' of chimney getting a build up of flyash on it.. But definitely a rare occurance.
But that must have occured over many, many years. Not something requiring twice a season sweeping like a wood burning chimney.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:46 pm

LsFarm wrote:But that must have occured over many, many years. Not something requiring twice a season sweeping like a wood burning chimney.

Very true. That buildup took decades.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: mmcoal On: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:04 pm

If the flue is too large, would it be possible to install just a liner cap at the top of the chimney with the desired size outlet? I am thinking of getting a Hitzer 503, but my fireplace flue is 12x12 and I read this might be too large. Would the cap idea be a possible alternative to a stainless liner? If this stove works out well, I will probably rebuild the chimney one day with the correct size flue.
mmcoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:36 pm

12x12 is not ideal, but tell us more. is this an interior or exterior stack? is this stack higher than the highest portion of the home? higher than the highest interior space? what is the overall height from fireplace to crown? pictures help. 12/12 may or may not be a problem based on these other factors. Large flues got a bad rap because in the 50's builders started building stacks on the exterior of the home and built them short, typically on the family room "additions"; this lead to a host of problems expecially when someone slammed a fischer insert into them. with coal and a proper chimney a lot of the oversize flue concerns don't apply. I'm not a fan of making the opening at the top smaller, in my opinion this doesn't help anything and may lead to potentially dangerous problems. tell us more about your stack.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: mmcoal On: Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:11 pm

Berlin wrote:12x12 is not ideal, but tell us more. is this an interior or exterior stack? is this stack higher than the highest portion of the home? higher than the highest interior space? what is the overall height from fireplace to crown? pictures help. 12/12 may or may not be a problem based on these other factors. Large flues got a bad rap because in the 50's builders started building stacks on the exterior of the home and built them short, typically on the family room "additions"; this lead to a host of problems expecially when someone slammed a fischer insert into them. with coal and a proper chimney a lot of the oversize flue concerns don't apply. I'm not a fan of making the opening at the top smaller, in my opinion this doesn't help anything and may lead to potentially dangerous problems. tell us more about your stack.

This is an exterior chimney about 20' high. Being an older house the chimney wasn't built quite as tall as it should be, but is actually taller than the peak of the roof.
mmcoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: nut

Re: Do I need a stainless steel liner for my chimney?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:16 pm

mmcoal wrote:
Berlin wrote:12x12 is not ideal, but tell us more. is this an interior or exterior stack? is this stack higher than the highest portion of the home? higher than the highest interior space? what is the overall height from fireplace to crown? pictures help. 12/12 may or may not be a problem based on these other factors. Large flues got a bad rap because in the 50's builders started building stacks on the exterior of the home and built them short, typically on the family room "additions"; this lead to a host of problems expecially when someone slammed a fischer insert into them. with coal and a proper chimney a lot of the oversize flue concerns don't apply. I'm not a fan of making the opening at the top smaller, in my opinion this doesn't help anything and may lead to potentially dangerous problems. tell us more about your stack.

This is an exterior chimney about 20' high. Being an older house the chimney wasn't built quite as tall as it should be, but is actually taller than the peak of the roof.


In keeping w/ NOT using a Stainless Steel Liner solution...this video shows a very clever method to end up w/ a clay liner, provided it is large enough to accommodate proper size liner and it is a straight chimney run. This is way more economical than any S.S. liner, easily done by the DIY'er and will last forever. :)

McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek