Antique stove efficiency

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:26 pm

McDonald's also prints on their coffee cup. Caution contents may be hot. ... :lol:

Tell the 8000 people on here their manual damper is dangerous. :lol:
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: coalcracker On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:35 pm

I'm specifically addressing recirculating type stoves, not woodstoves, or old coal stoves with no baffling system.

read the bottom of page 6, section 2.4

http://hearthnhome.com/downloads/instal ... II_III.pdf

here's what is says

MANUAL DAMPERS OR “HEAT SAVERS” MUST
NEVER BE INSTALLED IN THE FLUE PIPE. IMPROPER
OPERATION COULD RESULT IN DEATH.


do you care about your family ?

where's your brains, man ?

yes, I'll tell it to you. WTFUA
coalcracker
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Standard sealed hot water boiler, hand fed
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I Magnafire
Baseburners & Antiques: Lehigh Oak 18, Washington potbelly, Sears Roebuck parlor cabinet, PIttston 6 lid cook stove, vintage combo gas/coal cook stove 4 lid
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark I Magnafire

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 1:52 pm

What is a recirculating type stove? Stoker? Yeah don't use a manual on those.

My point is, with a mano and observation. Better yet tell Fred he needs a barometric, his manual is dangerous lol

Where's Fred?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix


Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:08 pm

Something strange going on here.

Joined January 2011
19 posts... Most of them today?

Harmon this, Harmon that, my Harmon is amazing. Old stoves are leaky... Bla bla bla WTF?

Are Harmon sales down? :no1:
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:25 pm

Wanna Bee wrote:Something strange going on here.

Joined January 2011
19 posts... Most of them today?

Harmon this, Harmon that, my Harmon is amazing. Old stoves are leaky... Bla bla bla WTF?

Are Harmon sales down? :no1:


I dunno about Harmon, but; I know that Emery at the Antique Stove Hospital and Doug at Barnstable Stove are selling base heaters as fast as they can get their hands on them. In fact there is a waiting list for Glenwoods.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:45 pm

Well if he thinks that the newer stoves are more efficient then so be it but the fact remains if you have a draft reversal any stove that's hooked up is going to leak like a shiv,Harmon leaves out the lower window gasket plus don't you have some type of air controls that are opened? But the new modern stoves seal them selfs up if that should happen WTF!!. The old saying still holds true " no matter how hard you try you can't fix stupid" some people should stick to set and forget type things if makes them feel safer but for the rest of us that have more then a 1/2 a brain and a good amount of common sense know that nothing is stupid proof :D ;) ;) . Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:40 pm

Someone spent waayy tooo much time in college studying nothing worthwhile!!!!!!!!! Who do you think can plow with horses best ? ,the 35 yr.old man who has a animal doctors degree OR the 80 yr.old man who spent 35 yrs.plowing with horses :?: Hint: the old guy who plowed with horses for his living -no science here,HE is the expert!! Who can design a coal stove best ?? the company who builds oil,lp & ng burners & just builds coal burners to get that small piece of the pie,OR the men who designed coal stoves to burn coal when coal was THE fuel to burn ?? Hint; never mind its beyond your scientific thinking capacity. :roll:
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:49 pm

well, I'm no fan of MPD's on coal appliances over a baro, but then again, I'm also no fan of harman... :gee:

As far as the (hopefully a misstatement) 92 percent efficient coal powerplants ?? :lol: :arrow: not even close.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:52 pm

Berlin wrote:well, I'm no fan of MPD's on coal appliances over a baro, but then again, I'm also no fan of harman... :gee:

As far as the (hopefully a misstatement) 92 percent efficient coal powerplants ?? :lol: :arrow: not even close.


Up to 92% efficient at extracting BTU's from coal, which is the part we are interested in here. Only 46% efficient for the very best of them at turning coal BTU's into electricity KWH's.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:15 pm

Larry, the single retort underfeed stoker can achieve greater combustion efficiency with bituminous coal than any other device - around mid 90's in scientific tests, and those devices were not invented recently. ;)
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: DePippo79 On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:41 pm

Just got home. Will be back once I get settled, but need to comment. Loaded my Oak 40 0400 this morning. Stove still cruising at 400 deg. House 72 deg. Stove heating basement, two floors, and breezeway. Probably another one that thinks just because something is old it's not good anymore. I'll take my 100+ year old stove and 130+ old house over anything new anyday. I do just fine with my MPD also. It's all about knowing your set up. They didn't have Barometric Dampers 100 years ago. My wife can even run the stove. Matt
DePippo79
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak 40, Stanley Argand No. 30, Glenwood Modern Oak 114, Stanley Argand No. 20 missing parts.
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite. Stove and nut size.
Other Heating: Oil hot water.

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:52 pm

Berlin wrote:Larry, the single retort underfeed stoker can achieve greater combustion efficiency with bituminous coal than any other device - around mid 90's in scientific tests, and those devices were not invented recently. ;)


I have no doubt that under ideally controlled conditions in a lab setting coal can be burned at greater than 92% efficiency, but in real world applications I seriously doubt that such efficiency levels can be routinely achieved let alone sustained.

More to the topic at hand: Realistically does anyone believe a baseburner or any other residential use hand fired anthracite or bituminous burning stove can routinely meet or exceed 80% efficiency on a sustained basis throughout a typical 12 hour tending cycle?
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:02 pm

COALCRACKER --- While i am no stove expert i have yet to see a stove with 20 psi in it,i think a vacuum inside of stove would be more correct....as in the draft pulling a vacuum,not too difficult is it ?? Your car engine analogy just flat out stinks,here's why,you brag about the newer hi-tech EFI,etc.... only 30-36 mpg??? installed in a modern feather-lite car??? Maybe you should study more car MPG before inserting your analogy... go back to 1976 Dodge Dart Sport Lite & Plymouth Valiant Duster Feather equipped with a 225 cu.in.slant six engine set & held the mpg record for many years,36 yes 36 MPG without HI-TECH junk helping them. Analogy of stoves needs to be considered the same way,old stove could draft (vacuum)doors tight WITHOUT modern day gaskets,modern stove needs gaskets to overcome sloppy workmanship.Your harman will burn coal for 100+yrs??? :lol: :lol:
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: franco b On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:22 pm

lsayre wrote:More to the topic at hand: Realistically does anyone believe a baseburner or any other residential use hand fired anthracite or bituminous burning stove can routinely meet or exceed 80% efficiency on a sustained basis throughout a typical 12 hour tending cycle?


If any can I would put my money on a stove design like William's Crawford or similar by other makers. It has the ideal shape of fire pot with the least heat loss in that fire pot of any design and extended heat exchange surface. I have no doubt that burned at its ideal setting it could exceed 90 percent for most of the burn period.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:01 pm

Here is the story of a PCI type coal fired power plant (built in 1975) that underwent major renovation and upgrading post 2001, and as a consequence achieved sustained 86% combustion efficiency in the real world. The application of mega-science and some serious jack got it to 86% efficiency. If a relatively modern pulverized coal injection boiler can only after major renovation efforts reach 86%, do you still think a turn of the century residential hand fired coal stove burning odd sized rocks of anthracite can sustain 90% efficiency in real world use?

http://www.exergeticsystems.com/Papers/PAPER-63.pdf

PS: This unit is slated to close by the year 2020 per Wikepedia.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)