Antique stove efficiency

Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: scottf On: Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:59 pm

I just purchased this antique coal burning stove. It was completely restored by the dealer. I knew when I bought it that I would sacrafice performance for looks. That is ok to me because I love the old time craftsmenship and it is worth it. My question is how much less efficient will this old coal stove be compared to a modern one.
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scottf
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:03 pm

Depends on how well you can contol mostly. Does it have a damper before where the gases enter the flue?
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: scottf On: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:21 pm

It does not have a damper built into the stove where the exhaust enters the flue. Just an open 6" hold for the flue pipe. However the dealer insists I install a manual pipe damper in the flue and gave me one to install. It has 2 air intakes below the burning chamber and just below the coal grates where the ash pan is and one air intake on top of the burning chamber.
scottf
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique


Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:40 pm

You have just made the SMARTEST stove buying choice that anyone could have made. That is a Geneva Oak!! Absolutely the top of the line! These stoves are highly efficient and easy to use and they are designed to be airtight. You have primary air control down at the ash pit and a large secondary air control in the door. I have used stoves like this with soft coal and let me tell you---they BELT out the heat! They are easily taken apart to maintain and the grates are standard round dump grates which are easily available.

Image


This is me from times gone by. This stove heated the bottom floor of an 1880's mansion which had 16 foot high ceilings and big drafty windows that were huge. This shot was taken in the back parlor of the double parlor. "Old Ethel," here held about 50 to 60 pounds of coal and kept that portion of the house toasty warm. When the temp was outside in the single digits, It was 80 degrees in the adjoining rooms here. One loading of coal would go about 10 hours on average, a little less during really cold snaps.

You have bought an excellent, excellent stove of superior design.
Last edited by wsherrick on Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:46 pm

That's a really nice looking stove Scott.
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: wsherrick On: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:27 pm

In my earlier post I should've answered your question more directly. This stove is among the most efficient stoves ever made, that is; if you learn to operate it properly. When I buy my own house I will have one of these someday.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:18 pm

If you got it at Barnstable Stove Shop
http://www.barnstablestove.com/html/baseburners.htm
You should have received quite a bit of info on how efficient these bad boys are.
Do whatever he says.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: scottf On: Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:58 am

Thank you Wsherrick, that is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks for the photo and the great reply. One quick question. I know the at the air intakes below the grates are my primary controls. What is the one on the top used for? . I know that all of the air must come from below the coal so why is there one on the top?

Also Capecoaler, Yes I bought it from Barnstable stove. Doug is a really nice guy but a man of few words. He didnt really tell me much about efficiency or operation at all. He is an incredible craftsman and does an amazing job. I highly recommend him. I just wanted to know about the loss in efficiency due to its age. I know wood stoves have come a long way and are about 50% more efficient than the old ones due to lack of secondary burners or catalytic converters. I do not know if modern coal stoves employ similar technologies
scottf
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:42 pm

Any above-fire air is secondary air, and this can be used to help burn wood, or to burn off volitile gasses from a fresh load of coal.. If bituminous coal is burnt there is a LOT of volitiles from fresh coal.

I'd say the secondary air vent is to allow the user to burn different fuels.

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: scottf On: Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:50 pm

This post and another raise another question. I was told to burn nut coal anthracite by the dealer. Can I or should I burn bituminous? Maybe it will be cheaper for me. I know even anthracite is hard to find in Southern New Hampshire. I dont know if I can even find bituminous. I have been told by several people that we dont even have any good anthracite in this area and that it all burns like burning gravel. Even one stove dealer/ restorer told me this .
scottf
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: wsherrick On: Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:42 pm

scottf wrote:Thank you Wsherrick, that is exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks for the photo and the great reply. One quick question. I know the at the air intakes below the grates are my primary controls. What is the one on the top used for? . I know that all of the air must come from below the coal so why is there one on the top?

Also Capecoaler, Yes I bought it from Barnstable stove. Doug is a really nice guy but a man of few words. He didnt really tell me much about efficiency or operation at all. He is an incredible craftsman and does an amazing job. I highly recommend him. I just wanted to know about the loss in efficiency due to its age. I know wood stoves have come a long way and are about 50% more efficient than the old ones due to lack of secondary burners or catalytic converters. I do not know if modern coal stoves employ similar technologies


You are quite welcome. I'm sure these great forum members will point you in the right direction when it comes to obtaining good quality coal. Don't overly stress out about it. There are bound to be some dealers near you that sell good coal. You just have to find them.

If I am not mistaken, your Geneva Oak is a ,"base burner," type stove. Again, there are no naturally aspirated stoves made today that can match it's performance or levels of efficiency. You should call the fellow at Barnstable Stove Shop and ask him how to operate a base burner. He should be more than happy to assist you. I'm sure he wants to have a satisfied and informed customer. Basically, base burners circulate the exhaust through a series of passages before the smoke finally exits at the stove collar. In this manner they extract most of the heat from the fire. On most of these there is a movable damper built into the stove to change the exhaust from direct vent into the longer flue path after a good draft is established.

To answer your question about the secondary air bell vent in the door-It is for use when wood or soft coal is burned. Many old timers started their anthracite fires with bituminous because the bituminous lights quickly and easily and so would light off the anthracite in no time at all. The only disadvantage to that method I guess is the bituminous will soot up your nice mica windows in the door.
wsherrick
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Glenwood Base Heater, Crawford Base Heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford Base Heater, Glenwood, Stanley Argand
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut, Stove Size

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: ScottD On: Fri Aug 22, 2008 6:18 pm

Scott,
That is one sweet stove. I'm starting to restore my antique and hopefully it will be ready this year. Good luck with it!

Adam,
Now you can back off on mine and focus your attention on that fully restored beauty! :drool:
ScottD
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Hearth Stoker

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:47 pm

Burn anthracite, you can find good stuff.
These base burners are the very peak of coal design, very efficient.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:14 am

ScottD wrote:Adam,
Now you can back off on mine and focus your attention on that fully restored beauty! :drool:


I don't give up that easy Scott, that's wishful thinking on your part! :nono:


*Google searching how to get past viscous lap dogs*
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Antique stove efficiency

PostBy: scottf On: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:27 pm

If I am not mistaken, your Geneva Oak is a ,"base burner," type stove. Again, there are no naturally aspirated stoves made today that can match it's performance or levels of efficiency. You should call the fellow at Barnstable Stove Shop and ask him how to operate a base burner. He should be more than happy to assist you. I'm sure he wants to have a satisfied and informed customer. Basically, base burners circulate the exhaust through a series of passages before the smoke finally exits at the stove collar. In this manner they extract most of the heat from the fire. On most of these there is a movable damper built into the stove to change the exhaust from direct vent into the longer flue path after a good draft is established.


It was listed as a baseburner but it does not have the series of passages that you speak of. At the top of the burning chamber is the 6 inch opening for the flue to hook up. I have seen some with the tube on the back that must contain the chambers . Mine does not have this. That is one of the reasons I asked about efficiency. Also there are no gaskets on the doors although they do seem to fit tight. I thought maybe it would be very leaky due to this fact. Thanks for all the information. I will light it up soon and find out. Pray for cold.
scottf
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Geneva Oak wood/ coal antique