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SMITTY
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Post by SMITTY » Mon. Sep. 01, 2008 7:14 am

Scottsman wrote:Back in the energy crises times people were buying smaller cars and using less gas. Then gas got cheap and Americans went SUV happy. Most of my co-workers have these monster vehicles to transport their 160 pound frames back and forth to work.
Back in the early 70's, cars were choked-down to lower their power output to appease insurance companies. This made them so inefficient -- buying a big-block V8 that put out 210 HP, when in 1969 that same exact engine was near 500 HP, was pointless. I don't remember many people driving smaller cars then! :lol: Anyone remember the Pontiac Grandville from the early 70's? Was about 25 feet long and 8 feet wide :lol: :up:

If the cars people were driving then got 15 mpg, that was considered pretty good! Nowadays pickups & SUV's do better than that. My ' 07 Silverado x-tra cab with a 5.3 liter V8 gets 17 mpg with my foot on the floor constantly in city driving -- & it weighs just under 5500 lbs. I think that's pretty damn good. My ' 94 regular cab Chevy got 15 & didn't have half the accessories that I've put on the Silverado. Plus the new one has about 60 more HP & 30 more FT/LBS of torque.

You cant complain about people driving SUV's with those numbers!

 
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Post by Scottsman » Mon. Sep. 01, 2008 7:55 am

Well, I'm driving an '88 Honda Accord back and forth to work. It has been getting me 30 mpg--which is double what some people drive. My point is that people that use WAY more oil/gas than they need to should stop whining about the price of it and start using less. Insulate your home, drive a more fuel efficient vehicle. Take some personal responsibility.

 
NorthernNewYork
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Post by NorthernNewYork » Mon. Sep. 01, 2008 8:58 am

Besides cost, there is no "crisis"
When demand exceeds supply, and we've entered a period of volatile prices. Sounds like a crisis to me.

Don't forget this isn't like the 70's oil crisis. This is a world market now. The US is just one of many players. China is gobbling up resources left and right.

 
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Post by LsFarm » Mon. Sep. 01, 2008 9:01 am

I'll agree with Scottsman, up to a point.. Yes we need to insulate, yes we need to be reasonable with what we drive and what we budget for transportation costs.. that's for those of us who CAN do something about it.. I feel really bad for those folks who are on a fixed income, and are already stretched by food, medical care and taxes... Heat is going to be a luxury this winter.

Some of us NEED larger vehicles, just insuring a second vehicle cancels the fuel savings,, not even accounting for the cost of a second vehicle.. or maintenance.

What needs to happen is we use oil for transportation, and use coal, wood, electricity, for heat and generating electricity. There is a long way to go, but I believe we as a country will get there, as long as we don't count on the government to do the tranformation..

American culture is one of excess, big houses, big vehicles, lots of toys etc.. A great deal of this is our entertainment culture.. we enjoy watching people living large, and we have generations of americans who have watched this enough that they think this is reality.. well it is for some, but it is very expensive,, the American culture is not used to limiting themselves.. we all want to 'live large'... reality is about to plant itself in our driveways..

I hope that people will check on their friends, and family,, arrive unannounced, check to see how warm the house is.. make sure nobody is using the gas stove for heat [kills a lot of people every year]. or other unsafe practices..

Oil will come down if demand drops.. But the USA is NOT the main demand now.. China and India are causing a great deal of the demand for oil.

Greg L.


 
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Post by coalkirk » Mon. Sep. 01, 2008 9:09 am

Scottsman wrote:Insulate your home, drive a more fuel efficient vehicle. Take some personal responsibility.
The solution to our energy crisis is not simple. It's going to need atttacking from all angles. Conservation is a key element. Hopefully folks on this forum who have gone to coal are smart enough to have already sealed up leaks and cracks in their homes. Other than newer homes virtually every older home I go in is underinsulated and full of leaks. Band joist insulation, sill plate sealing, attic insualtion, caulking windows could save the average person a good deal on their heating and cooling costs. Just fully closing and locking their windows would be a good start. These are inexpensive things that should be within the means of most folks.
In new homes, one thing that really makes me mad is the installation of 90% gas furnaces and not requiring the combustion air intake to be piped to the outside. Such a simple thing that allows the unit to operate at its design rating, not required. We could learn alot from the Germans on efficiency.

 
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Post by Scottsman » Mon. Sep. 01, 2008 10:58 pm

It is awful for the elderly who don't have the funds to make big heating system changes, or who don't know which contractor to trust to insulate/fix up their home. :( It is also awful for renters whose landlords refuse to replace leaky windows or a 50% efficient furnace...They don't care how much oil or gas the tenants use, because the tenant pays for the fuel. That really ticks me off. :mad:

I've been thinking about the world aspect of demand, and you are right about China and Asia sucking up a lot of oil. Hardly any Chinese were driving cars twenty years ago. Just think about the amount of extra fuel is used if just 5% of China's 1 billion+ people buy a car and start to drive. Same for India. Also, their development mainly comes by selling the USA tons of manufactured goods, which adds to the trade deficit, weakens the US dollar... in hardly any time at all oil is $4 a gallon.

The bottom line is we should help ourselves by conserving oil and like you say, help the people who can't help themselves.

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Mon. Sep. 01, 2008 11:41 pm

The problem with a conservation only energy policy is that everybody else (China, India, ....) have growing economies and will continue to consume more oil.
!00% energy independent and conservation should be our two main goals.

 
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Post by Paulie » Tue. Sep. 02, 2008 12:29 am

What we need is a national ENERGY POLICY. Smart money would drill anything and everything while at the same time,
pursing solar/nuke/coal/bio, wind. A concentrated full court press. A national mission! With competent leadership, we
could tell the angry Arabs to go stuff it in 10 years. We got to the moon, those same guys could build us a fuel cell in no
time. Where is the leadership? Oh, ya, I almost forgot...... Take the heat out of oil, ie; drop demand 50%, and many
problems go away. Russian bear scaring you? It won't if oil tanks because no one needs it. Angry Arabs got you down?
They won't if they do not have the money to keep there people happy, or the cash to fund terrorists. Global warming got you
down? Not if we can cut fossil fuel use to a min. and clear the air. It is a win win, but it will not happen with out leadership.
It sure as heck will not happen with an oil man running the show.


 
NorthernNewYork
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Post by NorthernNewYork » Tue. Sep. 02, 2008 8:38 am

Since we are on the topic...interesting article this AM.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/29/news/economy/LIHE ... tm?cnn=yes

 
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Post by CapeCoaler » Tue. Sep. 02, 2008 11:00 am

Oh cash oil delivery today 9/2/2008 dropped 10 cents per gallon from last Friday!
http://www.reliance.org/oil-cooperative.asp
They also cover SEMA. Scroll to bottom.
Great way to save some money if you still drink the Dino Juice.
Market forces at work, hurricane wimped out.
No major disasters in the oil drilling or refining areas.

 
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Post by LsFarm » Wed. Sep. 03, 2008 8:35 am

Yes, Market forces at work are doing a lot, pluss once the prices started to drop, the Wall Street Speculators dropped out of the picture, so that created even less 'demand' even though it was an artificial 'demand' it still ran the cost of fuel way up..

Crude at $110.xx/barrel yesterday,, oil goes down $5, my airline company stock goes up $.60.. up over $3 in the last month...

Greg L

 
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Post by titleist1 » Wed. Sep. 03, 2008 9:26 am

Called around yesterday to get the propane tank filled (used for backup furnace, dryer, hot water and cooktop). 400 gallon will fill us up until next year. We own our tank so we can see who is offering the best price rather than being locked into the company we are leasing the tank from. Prices ranged from $2.10 - $3.09 per gallon at the 7 or 8 companies I called. Two or three said to call back on Thursday as prices were supposed to drop again. Depending on where the next two hurricanes are headed, I may wait until next week to see if it drops further.

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