Confused/Concerned on Piping a Vermont Castings Unit

On my block many of us have invested in alternative heating sources. I went with a Harman DVC-500 which was a piece of cake to plumb to the outside world. One of my friends went with a Harman TLC-2000, the other with a Vermont Castings, both manual units as I'm sure you all know. .... and here's where we are scratching out heads:

TLC-2000 Install
Unit located in the center of the house, straight up run of pipe exits the roof two stories above.
Double wall black pipe from the stove into the second story, double wall stainless from there out the top to a well finished cap system
....all that seems to make plenty of sense to us. Quality from start to finish, $1100 for the material

Vermont Castings
Unit located in from of existing masonry fireplace.
Round black single wall snap type pipe exits unit from the rear, perpendicular to the floor
It hits a stainless tee and heads up the masonary flue in stainless single wall flex pipe before exiting the top of the chimney, $800 for material
.... concerns here are:

1. Single wall out of the unit? Acceptable? This is a coal and wood burner, seems like it should be beefier.
2. Perpendicular run from the unit to the tee? Will exhaust back up? Shouldn't there have been some angled rise to the tee?
3. Single wall all the way up the chimney? Here I think he is OK, being in a flue lined chimney but not 100% sure
4. Unlike the well machined double wall stuff used on the Harman TLC, this stuff is cheap in appearance and the fit is awful.
a. Not one joint is tight
b. In some cases to make the fit, the entering pipe is on the outside of the receiving pipe. IF it were water I'd imagine plenty of leaks.
c. Seems like a rip off based on the quality of the TLC expample

Thats our story. I've burned through many topics here looking for hints, some very helpful, nothing exactly what I'm looking for. Appreciate any feedback and advise as usual.
Andrew

The short run of horizontal pipe is ok. The "T" is needed to remove fly ash. The single wall flexible is I assume stainless steel should also be ok. I think 316ti is what's recommended. The one red flag I saw was the pipe joints. With coal the crimps should be facing up into the pipe above. Just the opposite for wood.

The short run of horizontal pipe is ok. The "T" is needed to remove fly ash. The single wall flexible is I assume stainless steel should also be ok. I think 316ti is what's recommended. The one red flag I saw was the pipe joints. With coal the crimps should be facing up into the pipe above. Just the opposite for wood.

The pipe from the unit to the tee isn't stainless. The tee and flex pipe is. When you refer to the crimps, I assume you mean; starting from the stove, the pipe needs to be on the inside of the next pipe for coal which makes sense to me. What if it's not and why would coal be different?

thx

1. Single wall out of the unit? Acceptable? This is a coal and wood burner, seems like it should be beefier.
Single wall smoke pipe is fine. Proper setbacks are required but inside a fireplace should be all brick.
2. Perpendicular run from the unit to the tee? Will exhaust back up? Shouldn't there have been some angled rise to the tee?
Short run 8" pipe no problem. The chimney is under a slight vacuum it will be pulled up once some heat is in the chimney.
3. Single wall all the way up the chimney? Here I think he is OK, being in a flue lined chimney but not 100% sure
Single wall flex in a lined chimney that is structurally sound is fine.
4. Unlike the well machined double wall stuff used on the Harman TLC, this stuff is cheap in appearance and the fit is awful.
By design flex pipe is delicate and if handled wrong crushed.
a. Not one joint is tight
Is the flex pipe a single run up the chimney? The only joints should be at the top and bottom.
b. In some cases to make the fit, the entering pipe is on the outside of the receiving pipe. IF it were water I'd imagine plenty of leaks.
Whatever the MFG recommends for joint layout is the way to go. I would imagine crimp down and inside the next pipe. This keeps the creosote drip inside the pipe.
c. Seems like a rip off based on the quality of the TLC expample
Liner is a specialized type of pipe, you are paying for what it does best. Line a preexisting chimney.
I would run the VC as a coal only stove. When wood is burned creosote is formed and the liner will need to be cleaned/brushed to avoid a chimney fire.
I use these guys. http://www.chimneylinerdepot.com/ check out their site for more info.
If you can take pictures that will help.

Thx CapeCoaler.

RE 2a: horizontal length from the unit to the Tee in the fireplace is 24". Too long?

RE 4a: No, the dealer gave him two 12' lengths, he needed 15' so towards the top there is a splice using a 18" length of stainless.

RE: joints in general, the problem is the flex pipe is oval. All the fitting s he was given are round. When questioning he dealer, they stated this is normal and with a little effort they should flex and go together. We found this not to be so true, thus these joints are not air tight in my opinion.

Thank again. Appreciate the feedback.

RE 2a: horizontal length from the unit to the Tee in the fireplace is 24". Too long?
Not too long you are fine here.
RE 4a: No, the dealer gave him two 12' lengths, he needed 15' so towards the top there is a splice using a 18" length of stainless.
The dealer should have given a 20 footer. You got scraps.
RE: joints in general, the problem is the flex pipe is oval. All the fitting s he was given are round. When questioning he dealer, they stated this is normal and with a little effort they should flex and go together. We found this not to be so true, thus these joints are not air tight in my opinion.
The dealer is an ass hat. Tell him so. There are oval couplers. There is an adapter for just about anything. I would question everything about the dealer, get a second opinion on every thing they touched.
**Broken Link(s) Removed**Thank again. Appreciate the feedback.

I'll venture a guess that the dealer is honest and ignorant, or is a thief that doesn't care, or is an airhead that doesn't know what he's doing, or is a jellybrain that was given bad information and doesn't have the good common sense to know that he got it. Once you saw it go together you had the good common sense to question it. I'm with Capecoaler, I'd contact the dealer and tell him the fit is not good and since the install you have found that the proper fittings do exist. I would not use it unless the joints were tight. At this point, I'd politely let the dealer know that he owes you a proper coupling, and if it does not fix the issue he might need to accept a return so you can get a proper set up. I'm worried that the ends might need to be trimmed to make the new coupling fit, and then it'd be too short.

Thx for the feedback. The dealer comes across as a jerk to me but as noted, this is a friend of mine's project and he see's things differently. The dealer took back the extra pipe, assured him that what he had was correct and how we got it together was ok. In the few joint areas that seemed questionable to me, he applied high temp fireplace sealant and left it at that.

(I suggested he buy good quality CO2 sensors)

thx again everyone.
Me? I'm aching to fire up the DVC-550 for the first time!!!

andrew

Do your friend a favor...
Buy those CO alarms and install them...
As an early gift....
Of life!

CapeCoaler wrote:Do your friend a favor...
Buy those CO alarms and install them...
As an early gift....
Of life!

This friend of mine has fired up the Vermont Castings unit twice and amazingly enough no leaks and CO sensors are installed. Thanks everyone on this one....