John McCains Health care plan?

John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: beemerboy On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:47 am

I've been doing some reading about McCain's health care plan. And If you have company paid insurance you may just have to kiss that good-by.

His plan calls for:

1. Removing all tax incentives for employers to provide insurance.
2. Making all employer provided insurance counted as taxable income (so much for not raising taxes).
3. Providing everyone with a $5,000 tax deduction to buy your own.

Problems with that approach is:
1. If your only tax deduction is for your insurance or if you are a low income earner then you will never see a real benefit.
2. Your employer will never "make-up" the difference for not having to provide you with insurance so with any costs you have you will be on your own.
3. Group plan premiums are less than individual because the risks are spread out. With McCain's plan there will be no group coverage.
4. Insurance companies will "cherry pick" their customers and those of us that have pre-existing conditions will not be able to get any coverage.
5. Insurance premiums could cost upwards of $10,000 a year and if you earn $10 an hour, you can pretty much forget having insurance coverage.

But like McCain's spokesman said, "There is always the hospital emergency room".
OR
As Scrooge put it: "Better they die and decrease the surplus population.
beemerboy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: SAEY
Stove/Furnace Model: Hannover 1

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:56 am

beemerboy wrote:But like McCain's spokesman said, "There is always the hospital emergency room".


That's the only choice many people have now. You're focusing on people that already have insurance through their employers, what about the people that have none? A $5000 tax deduction or any deduction is at the least a start for many low income people. I would think a liberal would embrace such a plan because it shifts tax revenue for low income people from the government to something that will directly benefit them.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:08 am

How about some supporting links.. ?? Your post is your opinion. based on what reading?.

So lets take my company, it doesn't PAY anything towards my health care,, it provides a group policy that I can buy into with payroll deduction payments.. This is how MOST companies do it today anyway, and this is the system I've had for the last 30 years, with many employers. Nobody paid for my insurance, I was just provided with an insurance plan I could buy into, When I was self or unemployed, then you have to pay non-group rates.. Your comments don't apply to this scenario at all..
Group policies are just that, Groups,, a pool of employees is a group, and a company can have a health care provider offer their employees a group policy without paying for any actual coverage..

And compared to a National 'health care' system, like Canada's, like the Dems want to install?? Where everyone pays more for less coverage, the doctors are in a straight jacket all the time, they can't provide good medical care outside the government guidelines... So people in Canada can as a last resort, come to the USA and get GOOD medical care,, if we get a similar 'health care' system,, where will the Americans who are denied medical care because it is outside the government guidelines.... where will we go??? In Canada, you can't legally BUY good health care, the doctors can't provide care outside of the government system..

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland


Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: beemerboy On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:14 pm

Here are a few links I googled in the last few minutes.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic ... ls/?page=2

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/margi ... -heal.html

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... care-plan/

http://www.alternet.org/story/93734/mcc ... _insurance


http://www.aflcio.org/issues/politics/mccain_healthcare.cfm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... falls.html

http://www.coloradoindependent.com/4380 ... are-plans/

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -coverage/


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/DN-Uninsured_27bus.ART.State.Edition2.4dce428.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


http://iowaindependent.com/4542/contras ... care-plans

http://www.healthinsurancerates.com/9-j ... erica.html

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?art ... _insurance


http://www.factcheck.org/mccains_5000_promise.html
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


I hope these are enough links for you.

Granted, I am focusing on the people that have insurance now. McCain's plan will increase the number of uninsured because when they have to actually write the check, many will decide to take the risk not have insurance. Is that smart? No, but that will happen, and everyone will pay for that through higher medical costs. People who can't get insurance because of preexisting conditions will find it impossible to find insurance at any cost..

When I first became disabled I called around to about a half dozen insurance companies to compare price coverage with what I was paying for COBRA and everyone said they would not cover me. A couple of them said some rude things about me wasting their time.

Hospital emergency rooms are over crowed and over used now as it is with people going for treatment that could be easily handled in a doctors office. Add several million people to the pot and it will only get worse and, who ends up paying for the service in the end anyways. Hospitals don't treat indigent just out of the kindness of they're hearts, the costs are only spread out among everyone who can pay for treatment after they attach your income, house and assets.

By making insurance benefits taxable you are guaranteeing the there will be more people without insurance. Why not do more to encourage businesses to provide insurance to the people that work for them.

With McCain's plan if you are unemployed, you aren't paying taxes so you wouldn't get the deduction anyways. Just like now. Self employed are generally able to find a group they can join that would bring there premiums down to what they would be paying after the "tax break" anyways. If they can't, they aren't looking around hard enough.
beemerboy
 
Stove/Furnace Make: SAEY
Stove/Furnace Model: Hannover 1

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:25 pm

People that work for companies that provide and pay for health care,, well that is part of the employment package.. and if the company has to or decides to drop the paid for insurance.. they will FOR SURE provide payroll deduction payment of the employee-paid plan.. most places you can get a payroll deduction for just about anything,, day care, Christmas club, extra retirement funds etc.

I can't see this as a big issue.. most companies that provide health care do this as a bonus to get employees to hire on and to stay with the company... usually to compensate for slighlty lower wages.. so if they don't have paid for health care,, they probably will have to raise wages.. so it is a wash.. if they are employed, they will probably be able to take advantage of the tax savings..

All in all a wash..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:42 pm

Not buying it Beemerboy, check out the rates in Mass. Now I Know Why I can't Afford Blue Cross Insurnace.

As I said there those aren't bad at all, part of the McCain proposal is opening up the regulations for more competition.

John McCain Will Reform Health Care Making It Easier For Individuals And Families To Obtain Insurance. An important part of his plan is to use competition to improve the quality of health insurance with greater variety to match people's needs, lower prices, and portability. Families should be able to purchase health insurance nationwide, across state lines.


On McCains website it mentions a $2500 tax refund for singles and $5000 for families. If you're a single guy making minimum wage I'd imagine your income tax for the year is going to be in the $2500 range. Not only could he get medical insurance in Mass. for that much but he'd have some left over to bank for the future:

John McCain Will Reform The Tax Code To Offer More Choices Beyond Employer-Based Health Insurance Coverage. While still having the option of employer-based coverage, every family will receive a direct refundable tax credit - effectively cash - of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider. Those obtaining innovative insurance that costs less than the credit can deposit the remainder in expanded Health Savings Accounts.



http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/19ba2f1c-c03f-4ac2-8cd5-5cf2edb527cf.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: billw On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:51 pm

Is McCain's plan a tax deduction or tax credit? Big difference. Either way all they are doing is shifting the cost of medical insurance from the employers currently paying to the federal government through the back door. Sounds like another Phil Graham (sp) idea to give something to the big corporations at the expense of the taxpayers. I forgot, I'm just another one of those whiney Americans footing the bill for all of these GD government schemes. And we wonder why there is a ten trillion dollar debt in this country?
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: GOODBYE OIL COMPANY

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:02 pm

If my company makes widgets and I employ 10 workers to make my widgets. All 10 workers who make the widgets are in the union. they make 15.00 hr. As apart of the union contract I must pay healthcare benefits of 1200.00 pre mo. per employee. I would totally enjoy govt. healthcare because then My company would no longer have to pay the premiums. All of the employees would get a huge tax increase to pay for govt. healthcare and I would not! Be careful what you wish for You just might get your wish. If I owned a coal mine and I was selling coal for 175.00 ton. then the govt. comes in and says they will impose a 1000.00 tax per day on every coal mine in Pa. Guess what the price of coal will no longer be 175.00 ton it will be more like 190.00 or more. If they raised tolls on trucks, the increased costs will be added to the price of a ton. The moral of the story is that buisnesses don't pay taxes. They never have and they never will.
Duengeon master
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite pea and nut mix. Bituminous lump

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:29 pm

Nothing is free, the expense is being subsidized by someone or among everyone.
The MA health insurance system is still being heavily subsided by the feds for the first few years of its existence...
after that we will see the prices go up.
A business will always eventually roll an increased expense into the price it charges...
Or it will go out of business!
A tax increase for any business is eventually passed onto the consumer...
In effect a tax increase on consumers.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: bksaun On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:29 pm

Where is Devil? He dead!?

Bk
bksaun
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Hybrid, Gentleman Janitor GJ-6RSU/ EFM 700
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 503
Coal Size/Type: Pea Stoker/Bit, Pea or Nut Anthracite
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer/ EFM-Gentleman Janitor
Stove/Furnace Model: 503 Insert/ 700/GJ-62

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: billw On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:46 pm

Yeah, no kidding. This is one example of McCain using one of Bush's ideas. I thought he'd be all over this like white on rice.
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: GOODBYE OIL COMPANY

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:56 pm

I think he is reading the dissection of Operation Eagle Claw.
I...can...hear...his....breath....behind....me...now....
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:32 pm

billw wrote: Either way all they are doing is shifting the cost of medical insurance from the employers currently paying to the federal government through the back door.


As I pointed out in another thread the lowest 50% of income tax returns in this country amounted to what Exxon is paying. In essence they are "token" gestures to the government but big bucks for the people paying them. You're creating a government funded Healthcare system in a sense but it's still leaving the door open to keep it private. I don't know about you but I don't want to see the feds taking over health insurance completely
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:35 pm

I think it was Mark Twain who once said:..."The rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated." :D

For those of you who may have noticed my recent absence from this forum in general & "off topic" threads in particular, suffice it to say that there are reasons which I am unable to go into at this time, pending receiving some guidance. I hope to be able to continue contributing to the coal related threads, in any case, but some things are simply beyond my control.
Last edited by Devil505 on Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: John McCains Health care plan?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:36 pm

And we'll leave it at that. Keep the posts on topic.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite