Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:34 pm

My daughter & son-in-law's new Harman TLC2000 was delivered today & they will be putting it in the unfinished basement of a 24X44" ranch with a new masonry chimney to be built next week. The basement has a bulkhead exit & I was looking for any tips people might have for using the bulkhead exit for getting rid of ashes, dumping bagged coal into coal hod or any other way to operate a stove in a basement as easily & cleanly as possible. Do most of you just dump the ashes into a barrel in the basement or do it outside? (I have a similar set-up but with a walk-out basement & it is real easy to do everything just by stepping out the door)
Last edited by Devil505 on Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Dallas On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:41 pm

I carry my ashes up the steps and outdoors. If you were going to transfer them in the basement, I believe I'd think about an exhaust fan in the area of transfer. There is going to be be lots of dust, dumping them. Maybe an enclosed room for that purpose would help.
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:02 pm

Dallas wrote:I carry my ashes up the steps and outdoors. If you were going to transfer them in the basement, I believe I'd think about an exhaust fan in the area of transfer. There is going to be be lots of dust, dumping them. Maybe an enclosed room for that purpose would help.


I've been just stepping out my basement door & doing all coal & ash transfers outside for 26 years so the idea of doing it in the house isn't one I like for dust purposes. They will be cutting a few floor vents & putting in a louvered door leading from the basement to the kitchen. Warm air should rise very well, but so will any dust suspended in that air from the basement!
Their basement bulkhead has a steel Bulkhead door & a 1/2" plywood door at the base. (not very good for keeping out the cold air!) I'm trying to talk my son-in-law into putting up a small partition wall to enclose the bulkhead area & insulate it very well. That way he could use it as an airlock & do all the dumping, etc in th airlock. He didn't seem real enthused about that idea & it is their house after all! :)

I was just looking to see if anyone had any "magic" to share on how to use coal stoves in a basement with a bulkhead.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000


Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: gambler On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:22 pm

I would not transfer the ashes in the house, I would go outside to do it.
If the basement is un-insulated all of that block and concrete is going to soak up a lot of the heat from the stove. They may not get enough heat to the living area. I would suggest insulating the basement walls.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Dallas On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:30 pm

A little later in the heating season, they'll be asking for your advice. :)

Maybe, multiple ash pans for the stove :?: They could be stored and taken out once every week or several days.
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:33 pm

gambler wrote:I would suggest insulating the basement walls.


Good point! The walls are just poured concrete. I would think just faced Styrofoam panels would do the trick.
Anyone here have decent result with no wall insulation in a basement?
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:37 pm

Dallas wrote:A little later in the heating season, they'll be asking for your advice. :)


Oh they're asking plenty of questions right now! I keep teasing my daughter that now she'll have her very own coal stove to dry her jeans in front of. (she assures me that that will never happen) :lol:
I think I'm more excited about the stove than they are!
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Dallas On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:52 pm

Things are a little different these days! When I was a kid, my family had an old general store, where my uncle lived and burned coal, of course. The basement had a dirt floor. The ashes just got dumped in a big pile on the basement floor. ... they didn't seem to be be too dirty. :?: I don't know how often they were taken out .. certainly no more than once a year and it may have been less frequently. I remember helping once.
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

2 metal ash cans...
with lids....
sized to hold 7 ash pans...
Purchase 8 ash pans...
Hand truck with ash can secured with all metal wire....
Once a week haul hand truck with ash can and pans full up the stairs...
Two planks for a ramp to expedite trip...
Empty ash pans into second can....
Return pans and ash can to basement...
Repeat.
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:46 pm

Is the only way in and out through the bilko doors? If so they are in store for lots of work and going in and out of the cold. Why don't they want the stove on the first floor?
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Titus On: Sun Sep 07, 2008 1:06 am

Maybe I'm the paranoid type, but foam panels in the basement like that worries me about fire. Might want to double-check local building codes. Let me quote a DIY site rather than type it all:

"Fire Protection:
Foam insulation is relatively hard to ignite but when ignited, it burns readily and emits a dense, black, smoke containing many toxic gases. The combustion characteristics of foam insulation products vary with the combustion temperatures, chemical formulation, and available air.

Because of the dangers described above, foams used for construction require a covering as a fire barrier. One half-inch thick (1.27 cm) gypsum wallboard is one of the most common fire barriers. Some building codes, however, do not require an additional fire barrier for certain metal-faced laminated foam products. Check with your local building code/fire officials, and insurers for specific information on what is permitted in your area."
Titus
 

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:23 am

Devil505 wrote:
gambler wrote:I would suggest insulating the basement walls.


Good point! The walls are just poured concrete. I would think just faced Styrofoam panels would do the trick.
Anyone here have decent result with no wall insulation in a basement?


To create a good insulation that would effectively keep the heat in and the cold out they would need to build some walls in that basement and insulate them with cellulose or closed cell spray foam, stay away from cheap useless white styrofoam panels. Not a cheap quick fix, but it would help to get better efficiency from their stove while creating more living space in their home. Building walls though it will help it will not be able to over come the fact that there is no insulation under the concrete floor, so heat loss will still be there. Also by framing in the walls and insulating them they could loose any insulation that have in the ceiling above to help maximize the heat going up stairs. When we had a wood stove in our unfinished basement the concrete walls and floors would get very warm when the stove was cranking, we lost all that heat to the outside.

I agree with the others here you want more then one ash pan, you do not want to be opening up those bulk head doors every other day. The few minutes it takes to open one of those doors is going to cool off that whole basement and send all that heat out doors, huge money lost there.

Indoor coal bin? I would also put the stove so it's under the living room or kitchen so it's not under the bedrooms making those rooms a little to warm to sleep in at night.

Tell them to break out the old check book and just build some walk out doors in the basement. ;)
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:38 am

traderfjp wrote:Is the only way in and out through the bilko doors? If so they are in store for lots of work and going in and out of the cold. Why don't they want the stove on the first floor?


That & the interior door from the basement leading into the kitchen. My daughter doesn't like the looks of & has very little room for a stove upstairs, plus less dust downstairs if there's a puff-back or whatever. Once they get the basement set up correctly it will work fine. It's basically the same size as my house with just one floor above to heat.
I'm going to try to convince Wayne to build that small airlock around the bulkhead entrance. That would solve multiple problems:

1. Give them a sealed area to dump coal bags(Blaschak of course ;) ) & empty ash pans into a barrel
2. Seal the bulkhead from the cold outside air better
3. Take care of insulating the basement wall in that area.

I'm sending my daughter a link to this thread.
Thanks for all the ideas!.....Keep em coming! :devil:
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:01 am

Adamiscold wrote:Building walls though it will help it will not be able to over come the fact that there is no insulation under the concrete floor, so heat loss will still be there


I'm not worried about that Adam. I've always had my stoves sitting on the basement concrete slab foundation, which was original just painted or now covered by thin vinyl tiles, & it works fine. (I think it kinda acts like a heat sink) The soil around here is mainly sand, so I don't know if that helps?)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Stove In Basement-Bulkhead Tips?

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:58 am

Cure the air infiltration problems first...
Seal foundation-framing interface with DIY spray foam kit...
http://www.google.com/search?q=spray+fo ... lz=1I7GGLG
http://www.fomofoam.com/fire_systems.htm#Pricing
http://www.energyefficientsolutions.com/sprayfoam.asp
http://www.tigerfoam.com/products.php
http://www.betterfoam.com/
Do the airlock...
Lead anchors make it removable in the future....
Make it big enough to be usable....
Use tape to make the walls first...
A small space becomes coffin-like real quick...
Foil faced foam code approved on the top 4 feet of a foundation wall...
Is the most cost effective way to insulate the basement walls...
Construction adhesive used to attach it to the wall...
Is the most cost effective way to insulate the basement walls...
Furring strips and wallboard can then be installed over that when you want it finished...
With all the money you save using coal to heat...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove