Smart Energy Plan

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: stoker-man On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:26 am

coalkirk wrote:Mandated efficiencies in our furnaces and boilers should be implemented like they've had in Germany for a decade. your system gets inspected there just like the emmisions inspection on our cars here.


Never, never, never. I don't want the govt. in my house (even though I have the certification to do this work with oil).

I agree with the plan up to a point. Solar won't work without heavy tax credits. So, in effect, I will be paying for someone's solar heat, which equates to a loss for me. No thanks.

Drill for oil, mine coal, use wind, nuclear, natural gas, all great ideas.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:34 am

gambler wrote:
Devil505 wrote:It seems to me that if we take the "Shotgun" approach to energy, something is bound to start to stand out as more promising than the others.


Did you ever point a shotgun into a flock of birds flying over and pull the trigger? Do you know what happens? You would think that there would be a bunch of dead birds laying around but usually you don't even manage to get one. Even using a shotgun you must take aim at a specific target.



I'd rather be using a shotgun than a 22 Rick! :rambo2:
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 11:46 am

Solar won't work without heavy tax credits. So, in effect, I will be paying for someone's solar heat, which equates to a loss for me. No thanks.



Since the government is giving people the tax credit's and rebates then your real loss is you not taking advantage of it and getting some of those credits and rebates back for yourself. Since you're already paying the questions is why aren't you paying yourself?
Last edited by Adamiscold on Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School


Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: gambler On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:28 pm

Devil505 wrote:I'd rather be using a shotgun than a 22 Rick! :rambo2:

The bottom line is you must set your sights on something specific. Not just pull the trigger and hope.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:40 pm

gambler wrote:The bottom line is you must set your sights on something specific. Not just pull the trigger and hope.



But how do you know which specific energy source will be the most cost effective unless you "shoot at a few" until you see what's the easiest target? ;) :)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: NorthernNewYork On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:41 pm

We need to have an all out assault on energy. Energy itself IS the target. We need to pursue all avenues. Build new nuclear power plants like the lights are going out tomorrow. Drill for oil, Dig for coal, Dig for oil shale in the west. Diversify the transportation fleet with CNG, and plug in hybrids. Invest in alternatives.

We better wake up and get moving now. In case no one has been watching the news....and reading between the lines. Other countries are scrambling for resources. Russia didn't invade Georgia for the peaches (haha) Nor are they pairing up with Venezuela for a picnic. Didn't China just score an oil contract with Iraq?

We have entered a period of resource wars.....and we must secure our own supplies. Pretty scary if you think about it.
NorthernNewYork
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Stove Company
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:23 am

Adamiscold, while I agree with your goal, in dollars it doesn't make sense. Yes, some companies are spending money on solar electric. It may be a wise investment for them for many reasons, but that doesn't mean it was a wise investment in dollars.

The first link does not mention dollars or output per dollar of investment, the third link says "pricing under review".

The second link you gave mentions 46.5 million dollar investment to produce enough power for 8,000 homes. Here in Maine a 55 million dollar wind farm just came on line. It is actually producing enough power for 45,000 homes. Let's see.... 46 million invested for 8,000 homes, 55 mil invested for 45,000 homes. Which seems the better investment in dollars?

Maine will kick in money toward personal solar electric. All money is spent through 2009. I know one person that took them up on it. I've done the math, I even called them back after a year to re-do the math. The bottom line is, with no repairs, no maintainance, no reduction in power over time, they are looking at a 54 year payback. The panels will not last that long. I don't like my tax dollars doing that!
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:24 am

The second link you gave mentions 46.5 million dollar investment to produce enough power for 8,000 homes. Here in Maine a 55 million dollar wind farm just came on line. It is actually producing enough power for 45,000 homes. Let's see.... 46 million invested for 8,000 homes, 55 mil invested for 45,000 homes. Which seems the better investment in dollars?



I agree with you 100%. Wind is the best investment dollar wise, the problem is unlike the sun were you can get 6 hours of charging time each sunny day with wind you don't get that on an every day biases. Right now there is a shortage in panels and there will continue to be one in the future because they are running out of material to make them, which is why we need a huge push to find something to take it's place and cut down on cost's.

The bottom line is, with no repairs, no maintenance, no reduction in power over time, they are looking at a 54 year payback. The panels will not last that long. I don't like my tax dollars doing that!


We need our tax dollars doing something to help improve our environment, hopefully they can find something that works better for us all the way around. I keep seeing our electric bill go up and it's not the rate that's changing it's all those extra charges that they tack on each and every month. As long as those continue to go up (much like everything else) the pay back times will continue to shrink.
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: Smart Energy Plan

PostBy: Freddy On: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:57 am

Adamiscold wrote: the problem is unlike the sun were you can get 6 hours of charging time each sunny day with wind you don't get that on an every day biases.


*smile* We should sit down at the table with drinks between us.

Gee, I was going to say the proplem is unlike the wind where you can get power each windy day, with the sun you don't get that on an every day basis. Off the coast of Maine there are more days with no sun than there are days without wind.

Mind you I'm the guy that invested a fair amount of money into building a windmill and a 60 foot tower that isn't paying for itself. LOL I feel a bit wierd that those local people with the solar panels are getting 10 times the power each month than I do, but, still, on average, solar electric just isn't a place to be dumping our dollars. Not until they actually come up with cheaper panels. Next year... some more design work, an addition to the tower, my windmill should perform better.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined