Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: chabbo On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:35 pm

Here is an interesting perspective on what may be in store for us in the next ten years given our economic state of affairs:

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/orig7/crovelli9.html

If the author is right, I would say it will lead to Americans purchasing assets that will retain their relative value (like coal) to offset the dollar's spiraling loss in value.

Looks like Freddy and others on this forum purchasing coal in bulk may just be a growing trend in the future.

Manny
chabbo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: Blackdiamonddoug On: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:12 pm

24 ton in storage now should last three years.
It will probally take the tire tracks on my lawn that long to go away.
Black Diamond Doug
Blackdiamonddoug
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axemen 260 rebuilt by Matt
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Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:18 am

Hoarding is a very bad word. It sounds like we are criminalising those who save for a rainy day. Instead of buying that 60" tv and a pair of 120.00 sneakers, buying enough coal to last until better economic times sounds like the smart thing to do. The grasshopper and the ants.
Duengeon master
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite pea and nut mix. Bituminous lump


Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:54 am

Duengeon master wrote:Hoarding is a very bad word. It sounds like we are criminalising those who save for a rainy day


I think you have to take into the account the interests of others. For example I have customers that used to only purchase maybe 2 or 3 tons at time. Some of them for example live in town and that's all the room they have for, not enough cash to purchase that much etc. . Should they suffer in the middle of the winter because there is no coal left because a few people have it sitting in a bin somewhere?

Furthermore lets say a lot of people here purchased large loads like that, this would cause a very large shortage. People who purchase normally at this time will have trouble getting it and through most of the winter. As the end of the winter approaches those people that have stocked up will not be purchasing so that will cause a surplus at the end of the winter. In addition they will most likely be paying much more for it at the beginning of the winter. Consider your neighbor before purchasing that much. There's a line between "saving for a rainy day" and being greedy.

Having said that I I also understand it's the most economical way for many of you to get it to very far places so if you do get a tractor trailer load its understandable. I'd certainly be doing the same thing if I was in our position. I have 12 ton in my basment now but I've always had that much in basement at this time of the year..
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:00 pm

I only read the first sentence of that article. Anyone that tries to sell a "fear of future" story I don't listen to.

I almost feel that I should defend myself for buying two trucks of coal instead of one. Being 617 miles from the mines makes it rather costly to purchase less than a full load at a time. If I had bought that 24 ton locally it would have cost an extra $2,880. A few weeks after I bought it the word went around that coal was going up on August first. It was cheaper to extend my coal bin than the increase. I had a CD in the bank from when my Mom died that went from 5% interest to 2% interest. I figured buying more coal was a good investment. AT THAT TIME I was told there was PLENTY of pea sized coal. Only rice size was having a shortage....but shortage is too strong a word, I was told there's plenty of coal, just getting the rice processed was the problem. I felt good buying that second load and the wife agreed it would be good to have it in case someone around here could not get it or could not afford it we'd be able to help them out. I felt good about remembering the notice on my Dad had posted in the dining room my entire childhood: "Tomorrow belongs to those that plan today". Am I a hoarder because I had the forethought and was prepared? A week or so after I bought my second load the word was spread that we should be careful about how much coal we buy.

Our entire life together my wife and I have been very careful with our money. We do not buy on credit, never have, except the house and sometimes a car payment. We gave up many things along the way to pay the house off years early. Our friends went on vacations, we sent the money to the bank. Our neighbors drove new cars, we drove junky Subarus. Now we can afford some things, but still prefer to look ahead, to pay things early, and to be prepared. Some people here have joked in good faith about the amount of coal in my yard, and I gladly joke with them, others, well... as I said at the beginning, I almost feel I needed to defend myself, so now I have.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: chabbo On: Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:48 pm

My intent in posting the link to the article was not to frighten anyone about the future, but rather, to do what you are doing Fred, and that is, to be prepared for what the future may hold, and that includes further inflation and erosion of the US dollar. I certainly do not criticize your coal purchases, I applaud them. Is not one of the major advantages to burning with coal the fact that it is one of the only fuels that can be stored for many many years? Doesn't that give people on fixed incomes an opportunity to hedge against inflation and year after year increases in other fuels? No, Freddy, I do not criticize your decision to buy now for the next several years. You are only being a responsible consumer. Hats off to you.

Manny
chabbo
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: vtec350 On: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:16 pm

Freddy, no need to defend youself for being pre paired for the future. To many extend themselfs on credit and only think about the moment(today) instead of their future. I too purchased a second truck load a few weeks back, not to "hoard" coal, but because I'm self employed in the construction trades. Luckly this year we got by and had a decent year, still down form the last few but still a fairly good year cosidering the housing market. I had a little extra money for a 2nd load and figured it would be wise to invest it now for future heating. If the housing keeps tanking like the past couple of years and business keeps falling off, at least I have piece of mind that my heat is paid for and we won't have to freeze through another winter. There's no way I will live another winter like last freezing with my home at 62* wrapped in blankets, I work way to hard to have to live like. If I was closer to the coal and didn't have to worry about delivery prices constantly rising, 1 load would've been sufficiant for now.

Dave
vtec350
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: traderfjp On: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:42 pm

Freddy: You sound like a smart guy and have nothing to apoogize for. If all Americans were as responsible as you this country would be much better off. People piss their money away on luxury items and then cry about not having the money to heat their homes. This isn't eveyone but I know many people like that. I feel soprry for the people who work hard, save and still can't afford to heat their homes. There is always an option. Sell your home and rent or move to a warmer climate. This sounds horrible but that is how the free market system works. There is coal to be had. Maybe not at the almighty Superior or Harmony but if you call around you can get rice coal which seems to be the fastest selling coal.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: traderfjp On: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:51 pm

Don't count America out. Our dollar is getting stronger and energy prices are coming down. We would be in a recovery if not for all the cheap money the Fed pumped into our economy and the dopes who lent it out to people who shouldn't have really received loans. The world economy is also slumping which doesn't help us either.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: vtec350 On: Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:16 pm

Trader, I'd love to believe that but it's all smoke and mirrors for the election. Just wait until Jan. , energy prices will climb and the dollar will start to sink again. I read somewhere the other day that there's been like 23 banks this year that have failed, of course we usually only here of the big ones like Freedy/Fanny, but trueth is there's more on the verge of failure every day. I see it first hand in the construction business, some of my biggest builders have just layed off more than half their staff, there's NO foundations going in and at this time of the year that's scary. Even the realtors I know say there's not much selling as far as existing homes, unless you're willing to give your house away. I try not to be pessimistic about things but you need to be a realists now a days :o It's going to get a lot worse out there before it starts to get better, for once I hope I'm wrong on this but being a pessimist has worked good for me so far :lol: :P

Dave
vtec350
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:34 pm

Richard S. wrote:I think you have to take into the account the interests of others. For example I have customers that used to only purchase maybe 2 or 3 tons at time. Some of them for example live in town and that's all the room they have for, not enough cash to purchase that much etc. . Should they suffer in the middle of the winter because there is no coal left because a few people have it sitting in a bin somewhere?


Having said that I I also understand it's the most economical way for many of you to get it to very far places so if you do get a tractor trailer load its understandable. I'd certainly be doing the same thing if I was in our position. I have 12 ton in my basement now but I've always had that much in basement at this time of the year..
Hi Richard I only have 3220 lbs in my basement. because it is also too small. Saving for a rainy day is not hoarding. Fearing Obama's election is a reality. Slowly buying gold and silver coins due to the fear of inflation and the weakening of the U.S. dollar is not hoarding.I want to protect my life's saving for my family. I purchased my coal in July before the price increase. As for me I burn nut, which as far as I know is not in short supply. I heard that the price of gas is going up due to hurricane Ike, so I filled my tank before the station increased the price. that is being frugal.
Duengeon master
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon Mark III
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite pea and nut mix. Bituminous lump

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:22 pm

I agree it will probably get worse before it gets better. We've been in a 20 year bull run. The economy goes in cycles and it will come back.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Ron Paul -- More Coal Hoarding To Come?

PostBy: orvis On: Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:01 pm

NO offense meant Richard S.
Market supply will only adjust due to market demand.
Let us be clear
Many people do not realize this, but:
Hoarding is a phrase right from socialism/communism. Right thinking people should not use it.
The phrase was created to criminalize people who thought ahead in communist countries. Naturally, under communism, even toilet paper was scarce, not to mention plumbing parts or food. So communists worked hard to criminalize (shoot dead) people who had forseen the giant clusterfark that would ensue and had planned ahead.
Freddy, you have done the right thing.
Under an obama administration, we will probably be using corn cobs in an outhouse ;)
People with too much coal or beans or any guns in their houses will be rounded up for "re-education" :shock:
orvis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: channing III