Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: traderfjp On: Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:13 pm

I wonder if you put wood blocks behind the coil so they push up against the back of the stove if you couldn't bend the pipe successfully. You need to get that pipe over the fire for sure.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: BIG BEAM On: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:15 pm

This time of the year you're not running the stove that hot and will only get 3/4 of a tank or so.The thermosiphon slows down a lot because the temp in the pipe feeding hot water to the tank is about the same temp as the top of the tank and it slows down a lot.When you start running the stove hotter you will get hotter water and the thermosiphon will have more "power".If the tank wasn't insulated the hot water would cool slightly in the tank and start to sink letting the hotter water in the coil to keep feeding in the tank.Once you start running the stove harder you'll get more hot water volume wise and temp wise.
DON
BIG BEAM
 
Stove/Furnace Make: USS Hot blast
Stove/Furnace Model: 1557M

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: Freddy On: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:46 pm

Instead of bending, which would give part of it over the fire, how much trouble to move it?
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined


Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:53 pm

Instead of bending, which would give part of it over the fire, how much trouble to move it?



Good point enter it from the side so it is right over the grates . Good thinkin' Freddy
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: ceccil On: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:36 pm

Thanks for the PM Freddy. The way the coil is made I cannot get it over the fire no matter where I mount it. The coil is an "L" It is mounted on the side now (see pics) I really don't want to add a pump if I don't have to. It kind of defeats my reason for buying a coil. I will call the shop down the road and see if they can bend it for me to get it over or at least closer to the fire. I do believe that once it gets colder out it will work out better for me. If all else fails I can add another coil next summer. Thanks all.

Jeff
ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: Razzler On: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:16 pm

I don't think it's gonna make a big difference. I have the coil right over the fire in my stove and it doesn't make allot hot water when the stove is just idleing and my coil is 15ft long.
Razzler
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF 250

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: ceccil On: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:24 pm

I took the coil back out and took it to a local machine shop. They didn't dare to try to straighten it for fear of collapsing or creasing it. Insead they cut it off at the bend and rewelded it at the angle I wanted to get it over the fire. I then reinstalled the coil and raised the tank so the cold out of the tank was inline with the bottom of the coil. I refilled the tank, bled the air and fired the stove back up at about 10:30pm last night. Took a good long hot shower today and had more than enough HW. Only problem now is as I was typing this I heard a noise in the basement and found that the relief valve next to the stove had opened up. What would be the best option now that this has happened? After it popped I came back upstairs and ran about a half of a bathtub of hot water to settle it for now. I am not using a pump. Just running thermosiphon. I'll probably wait a few days before I do anything anyway and see how it works out as is. We didn't use any more HW than the one shower this AM. I'll get this yet!! It's not going to beat me.:box: Thanks all.

Jeff

PS I took the pipe insulation off this AM to see how well it would do without it.
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ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: choyt002 On: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:00 pm

I think i have read through this thread about 3 times. I have learned alot and thanks to your troubles I should have a coil installed soon. So Just wondering now that i figure the stove temps are hotter how is it all working out ? enough hot water ? to much hot water ? I plan on a tempering tank being heated by the LL pocono feeding the propane hot water heater thanks
Chris H
choyt002
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono bv

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:23 pm

ceccil wrote:I took the coil back out and took it to a local machine shop. They didn't dare to try to straighten it for fear of collapsing or creasing it. Insead they cut it off at the bend and rewelded it at the angle I wanted to get it over the fire. I then reinstalled the coil and raised the tank so the cold out of the tank was inline with the bottom of the coil. I refilled the tank, bled the air and fired the stove back up at about 10:30pm last night. Took a good long hot shower today and had more than enough HW. Only problem now is as I was typing this I heard a noise in the basement and found that the relief valve next to the stove had opened up. What would be the best option now that this has happened? After it popped I came back upstairs and ran about a half of a bathtub of hot water to settle it for now. I am not using a pump. Just running thermosiphon. I'll probably wait a few days before I do anything anyway and see how it works out as is. We didn't use any more HW than the one shower this AM. I'll get this yet!! It's not going to beat me.:box: Thanks all.

Jeff

PS I took the pipe insulation off this AM to see how well it would do without it.






I had to put a dump in when I had mine yrs ago . I used a zone valve to a 6 ft hwbb in my dining room . I clamped snapdisc switch to the pipe . If it got over 130or 140 degrees (I cant remember the exact setting ) it would dump to my base board . I did have a circ pump in line as well . Also use a good mixing valve like a honeywell .The cheap watts ones don't seem to hold up as well .
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: ceccil On: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:29 pm

Thnaks for the info on the mixing valves Flyer. I'm gonna live with it the way it is now for the rest of the season. When the stove is shut down next summer I'm going to make some minor changes to the setup and add in a mixing valve.

choyt002 wrote:I plan on a tempering tank being heated by the LL pocono feeding the propane hot water heater thanks


I was also thinking of doing this and sometimes wish I had. One reason I didn't is because the NG tank is all the way on the other side of the basement and was just installed last spring. Also I want to shut the NG tank right off if possible. I can't stand to give NYSEG a nickle if I don't have to.

If I use all the water in the tank connected to the stove it takes approx. 12 hrs to fully recover. This is normally not an issue though. Now that we have been using it for a while I have only had the valve open up once. Now that I raised the tank up, I am getting a full tank of hot water now instead of 3/4. But when it does get fully up to temp. the water is much hotter than I would like coming out of the tap. As I said before, a mixing valve will be added. I just don't want to tear into it while the stove is in use. Good luck on your install choyt002 I expect you will be happy with it once you get it up and running.

Jeff
ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: choyt002 On: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:12 pm

Jeff,
Thanks for the update, I was wondering how high you lifted the tank. I see you say it heats the whole tank now. Thanks
Chris H
choyt002
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pocono bv

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: ceccil On: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:46 pm

Chris, I raised the tank just enough to get the cooler water coming out of the bottom of the tank in line with the bottom of the coil. Actually it's about an inch above the inlet of the coil now. I would have liked to raise it a little more but we have a short ceiling in the basement and space would not permit it. Cold water likes to fall. So I figured the way I had it before with the outlet on the tank going to the coil being almost a foot lower, it would have a harder time moving the water up to the bottom side of the coil. This seems to have helped move the water better and getting more turnover of the water in the tank. Make sure you post pics of your install. Everyone loves to see pics.

Jeff
ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: ceccil On: Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:15 pm

Just a small update. Coil has been working very well thus far. I did make one change since the last post. I originally plumbed the HW tank for the coil and my NG tank seperate. I just had to turn some valves to shut one off from the system and turn the other on. This was not an issue during the colder months as the coil kept up with the HW requirments. Now that it has been warmer on some days and the stove just idles along, sometimes the recovery is to long. I decided to run the output of the coil tank into the inlet of the NG tank to eliminate the need to switch over each time if needed. Also during the warmer weather I need to keep the NG tank running anyway because if I need to use it and its tuned off then I have to fire it and burn alot of gas to heat a cold tank. Now if the coil tank is hot it just fills the NG tank and the NG doesnt even fire. Also if the coil tank isn't up to temp the water coming from it into the NG tank is at least preheated so NG only has to run very little to bring water up to temp. vs. the 55' water that used to come in from the steet. This setup has eliminated the need to switch valves on warmer days. The other benefit is that during the summer when the stoker is not running, the water will still be flowing through the coil system and may sit in the coil tank for some time and come up to room temp before entering NG tank, still saving me $$ during the summer because the water will be at room temp. or close to it keeping the NG from having to heat cold water. Also the added benefit of having 80 gal. of HW vs. 40 gal. if coil tank is up to temp.

Jeff
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ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: BIG BEAM On: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:09 pm

Hi ceccll
Just make sure the coil doesn't condensate into the stove.Water and ash is a no no.Maybe you could insulate the coil in the stove for the summer.
DON
BIG BEAM
 
Stove/Furnace Make: USS Hot blast
Stove/Furnace Model: 1557M

Re: Help on plumbing for thermosiphon

PostBy: ceccil On: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:55 am

Thanks Don. I didn't give that a thought. I do still have valves in place to isolate the whole stove system from the rest of the house. I could bypass the stove system and drain it down to eliminate that problem. After giving it some thought, I don't think the water will warm up that much running through the stove system due to the 65 ' temp in the basement in the summer, maybe 10' or so.

Jeff
ceccil
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Mark III