Overfiring - Thanks again. 1 Specific question at bottom

Overfiring - Thanks again. 1 Specific question at bottom

PostBy: Joe B On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:54 am

Thanks in advance for any insight. My gut tells me this is probably an ignorant question, but I have no idea what I did. I have a small Vogelzang Rancher wood/coal stove installed to supplement my oil this winter. I fired it up with wood last week to check draft with no problem. Last night I lit a coal fire, and overfired it. When I added coalto the top, I only had half of the bottom layer of coal ignited (right side). So, eventually, I think the fire burned down the left side causing the overfiring. The left bottom of the stove bucket? glowed. Tonight I retried making sure I had lit coal as a base, and then filled half way. My goal was to see the heat output with the reclaimer I had installed. Again, I am sure this is my ignorance, but even though I had flames to the top of the bucket, It would never kick the reclaimer on (I believe kicks at 155). So I filled to top with coal, and now checked on it, and I am glowing again in the same spot. What exactly am I doing wrong? Just to possibly save time. It has a draft control on ash door. I have a damper 3" up stovepipe. Chimney (double wall stainless steel) is supported by stove, so everything is permanent, so if the cast iron was weakened somehow, I could not replace, and that is the only place I have any glow. Thank you again for your time and help.
Last edited by Joe B on Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:34 am

Your fire is getting too much air. Can you close down the ash door air inlet a bit? (if not, you have a big air leak & you won't be able to control your stove.....a dangerous situation!.....Maybe a new ash door gasket would fix it??)

Is this your stove? http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... _200307953
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: jpen1 On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:10 am

Does this stove even have fire vrick in the inside. I haved looked at some Vogelzang boxwood stoves that have no fire brick in them at all. IN my opinion if the stove has no fire brick you shouldn't burn coal at all and I would be scared to even burn wood for extended periods of time. Also you need to choke that damper and the draft control on the stove. Also it is imperitive that you have a CO detector . If you don't stop immeadiately and get one before burning.
Last edited by jpen1 on Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jpen1
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: 110 Boiler

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Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: Joe B On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:24 pm

Thanks for the info. Yes the link is to the stove. There is no gasket on the ash door. There is no fire brick. The stove is extremely small. There is a small opening in the seam between the bucket and the top plate. I have to be able to use this stove. It cost $200, and the chimney ran me around $600. Should I seal the seams? Can I line the bucket with something (again, very small)? What about the top plate, there are seams everywhere? Where I seem to be messing up is that when I light the fire, it never seems to get hot, then when I top it off I end up overfiring it. Again, thank you. I am picturing sealing the seams I can with furnace cement, maybe lining the bucket with it, and getting gasket tape to seal ash door. Any of that make sense? Thank you.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:55 pm

Have you done a search for that stove here? Someone familiar with it can be more helpful than me but

1. I would buy some (thin) gasket rope & try to seal that ash door better.

2. Stove seams above the fire bed will not cause it to over fire. Just too much air below the coal bed. (any seams above the fire should be drawing air into the stove, not out)


I wouldn't fool with it until you get some answers because it looks like a real fire/CO danger to me!: :fear:


Edit: I would keep a barrel of sand near the stove in case you lose control & need to put the fire out. (Dump sand in it to smother the fire & make sure the ash door is closed tight & the draft wheel is closed)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:33 pm

http://www.northerntool.com/images/down ... nual-_-Tab

I would contact the manufacturer as it isn't listed for anthracite, just wood and bituminous. If you look in the manual, it says nothing about a baro. How tall is your chimney and do you have a barometric damper?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:11 pm

Coaledsweat beat me.... I think that stove is not designed to burn anthracite.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: Joe B On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:01 pm

Thank you everyone. I called the company (great customer support). Any feedback would be appreciated. The company does recommend bitumunous, but since I live in the middle of anthracite country I have to improvise. I am putting gasket rope around the ash door, and am going to coat the entire inside with refractory cement (Ace Hardware's idea). I am then going to try to watch the fire closely as to learn how best to control it. Any opinions? Thanks again.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:09 pm

Joe B wrote:I am then going to try to watch the fire closely as to learn how best to control it. Any opinions? Thanks again.


Yes. Sell it and buy a used anthracite burner. If not, get lots of smoke detectors, co detectors, make sure your family has an escape plan and make sure your home owners insurance is paid up.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: Overfiring - Thank you. 1 more question at bottom

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:15 pm

coalkirk wrote:Yes. Sell it and buy a used anthracite burner. If not, get lots of smoke detectors, co detectors, make sure your family has an escape plan and make sure your home owners insurance is paid up.




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Be nice Terry!! :lol:

(you forgot to mention making sure his life insurance is paid up!........Sorry Joe....Couldn't resist! :devil: )
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: Any help would be appreciated - overfiring

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:07 pm

Joe B wrote: The company does recommend bitumunous, but since I live in the middle of anthracite country I have to improvise. I am putting gasket rope around the ash door, and am going to coat the entire inside with refractory cement (Ace Hardware's idea).


This is not a good idea, the refractory would work if it was very thick and you could cure it in a kiln properly. Then when you put it in the stove, the firebox will be to small to be useful for heating and it would be difficult to maintain a fire. I too recommend you stick to wood or bit coal in it until you replace it. If you want to burn anthracite, get something that is designed to do so. It is an angry fuel and can bite you.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Overfiring - Thank you. 1 more question at bottom

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:39 pm

Sadly, coalkirk was being nice. Bad news has no gentle way. He was trying to put a smile on saying this stove will be dangerous if anthracite is burned in it. You might modify it and make it less dangerous, but also you are literally playing with fire. Any modifcations may just as easily make it more dangerous.

I think Northern Tool is doing a disservice by not making that very clear in their ads.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Overfiring - Thank you. 1 more question at bottom

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:50 pm

Look in all your local papers, http://www.craigslist.com http://papershop.com/ and local buletin boards.. find a good used coal stove.. and sell the Volgezang..

The stove you have is dangerous to use for burning anthracite.. with all the poorly fitting sections, resulting in air gaps, you have no control over the heat output from your stove.. Anthracite is quite capable of getting hot enough to melt your stove !! Really!!

You have the most important part of heating with coal.. a good chimney.. now, don't try to cut corners and safety by using an inadequate and dangerous stove..

Sealing the gaps and the door so you can control the air to the coal is a start, but these are just indications that the stove is not well made, and has questionable safety.

Greg L.

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Overfiring - Thanks again. 1 Specific question at bottom

PostBy: Joe B On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:51 pm

Thanks everyone. I know your intentions are right, and I do appreciate all the safeguards. My question is based on that I am keeping this stove. I do not have the money, nor if I sold it, do I have the presence of mind to take the whole assembly apart. My chimney is greatly supported by the stove. I used the refractory cement, and am very satisfied so far. The ash door is my problem. It has a shaker, and I am not sure how to make that area airtight. I understand everyone's concern, but after seeing how the stove held up under that extreme temperature, and talking to my dad who often remembers their kitchen stove getting hot spots (glowing). Also talking to Vogelzang today, and the woman from Ace I feel comfortable to give it another try. If anyone has any ideas concerning the ash door where the shaker handle is please let me know. Thanks again.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: Overfiring - Thanks again. 1 Specific question at bottom

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:12 pm

No one here is trying to be anything but helpful Joe, but we tend to be very safety conscious so please accept our recommendations as just that....recommendations. The fact that your are here, asking good questions, discloses a healthy attitude & shows a respect for the dangers involved.We are all grown men & women so, as long as you understand the dangers, it is your decision what risks vs benefits you are willing to take. (I have floor vents cut which present a small danger vs a big benefit, so I have accepted the odds here)
Please take seriously the advise to have multiple, working smoke/CO detectors & a supply of sand as well.

Let us know how that ash door gasket works out.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

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