The Fox Still Has The Keys To The Hen House!

LsFarm wrote:It's healthy to listen to 'White Christmas' I might even listen to it tonight..!!

Greg L.

Sure....Another dig at Obama!!..... White Christmas

Don't call me paranoid mister!!

(anyone else hear that whispering??
......or
I used to watch pro football on TV but I stopped because I know they are talking about ME in the huddle!)

Devil505 wrote:(anyone else hear that whispering??)

You need to stop playing that tape all night while you're sleeping. You know the one that keeps repeating to you Obama and Biden....Obama and Biden.....

Now you're starting to hear it durring the daytime



Dave

vtec350 wrote:You need to stop playing that tape all night while you're sleeping. You know the one that keeps repeating to you Obama and Biden....Obama and Biden.....

Nah....I stopped that tape about a month ago when I switched to Ron Paul.

TimV wrote:Hey Folks
"Its all about oil" And that is the truth 100% No way to deny it just a fact and its also a fact that we went after Saddam because of the oil. Another fact ...(According Andrew Young) (Google him) Not exactly a Bush supporter.
he said Saddamn sealed his fate when he set the oil fields in Kuwait(sp) on fire. It showed the US that we and the world were vunerable to the whims of a madman and he wouldn't think twice about killing the economies of the world burning up all the oilfields especially Saudi Arabia (not his pals)
Bush and Cheney are OILMEN They were supported by OILMEN OILMEN have the vast majority of the money .They wanted to protect it.
All politics aside . Something had to be done >They Bush N Cheney did it. we now are in a mess but could be in a lot worse mess had nothing been done. kinda like "pay me now or pay me latter"
Now are next problem along with Chinese trying to poison us off one at a time ,we have Vodka Guzzling drunks moaning about their feelings being hurt and are ready to start WW3 over sour grapes over them losing their former captured territories.
here it is 2008 and Russians think like the cavemen they are.
Poor George . All he did is exactly as he was told to do.maybe not the brightest bulb on the tree but he listed well as Karl was whispering in his ear what to say. he gets my vote for "Most improved public speaker" compared to his first speeches and debates.

Dead on TimV. I love it when the Hollywood libs cry "its all about oil!!" as they climb in their Learjets and Gulfstreams... Hey Greg, How many pounds of kerosene does a typical Gulfstream GIV burn per hour?

A Gulfstream V burns roughly 900 gallons the first hour, then about 450-500 gallons each hour after that.. My memory is poor, I've been flying an Airbus A320 for the last 10 years, so I can't remember real well if the numbers I remember are fro the Gulfstream III or the IV or the V. The GIII burns more per hour than the later airplanes..

The Airbus A320 burns roughly 1200 gallons the first hour, and about 8-900 each hour after that.. Our fleet of A320's burn ~860 gallons per hour this includes taxi, climb, cruise, and desent.. and we carry 150 customers.

Greg L.

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Adamiscold wrote: Having or not having a down payment is not the cause of this. A $220,000 mortgage is only about 200 bucks more a month then what we were paying to rent our apartment and is greatly less then what it takes to rent a tiny studio apartment in the cities. The problem is with the banks increasing the percentage one is allowed to use of their income to qualify for a home mortgage............

I'm not so sure that's the entire story either, the issues they are facing now actually started here many years ago. The "Pococnos" is only a short drive from NY and other major East Coast areas. It saw a major housing boom over the last decade, small rural towns were turned into urban areas overnight. They were luring a lot of these city people in with very cheap mortgages to start with but the rates were not fixed. They'd get about 2 or 3 years into it and the monthly payment would go up 1/3 or even more and the next thing is they couldn't afford it anymore. This was pretty big news here even 2 or 3 years ago because many homes were going into foreclosure. They were blaming both the builders and the banks and rightfully so.

Simply put they were selling people homes they could not afford and taking advantage of them. Take there money for few years then get the house back. Certainly a sound business plan at that point because there was plenty of people to purchase the home again... not so anymore.

People were buying homes and then refinancing them when the got into debt. My cousin consolidated his loans three times like this and sucked all the equity out of his home. When home prices went down there were many homeowners who had negative equity and when they got into debt they couldn't refinance. In my area I don't see any more homes for sale than normal. I wonder where all these foreclosures are happening. I'm also very ambivalent about whether or not the government should step in and stop the bleeding. If I go to Vegas and risk my capital and lose the government isn't stepping in to bail me out.

A lot of foreclosures in very high cost areas and very low cost areas. Both areas had people heavily taking advantage of subprime mortgages, 0% down mortgages, and short term ARMs. High cost areas were made even more high cost by the availability of these loans, the idiocy (yes idiocy, no other way to explain it away, I'm sorry) of the buyers buying well beyond their means, and real estate and mortgage brokers looking the other way on due diligence because the underwriters were looking the other way and the lower level people wanted the fat commissions. Low cost areas, mostly black and other minorities buying, also took advantage of the same kind of loans for the same kinds of reasons and made the same stupid mistakes in doing so.

Buyers are to blame in both cases. Banks are to blame in both cases. Clinton and the Dems are most culpable on the low cost area subprimes because this is the area they passed legislation and made policy changes over the past 16 years for this precise goal, increasing home ownership among those who couldn't really afford a home due to their unstable, low incomes. A decent enough goal, but pretty dumb when it comes to long term practicality. They are also most directly responsible for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac expanding their mandates and portfolios, allow them to become the huge risk they are for the tax payers that they have proven to be. Bush and the Repubs are most culpable on the high cost area subprimes because of pushing low interest rates for so damned long, which enticed banks to lend lend lend like crazy and to lower their standards on the high value subprime mortgages. Again, the low rates had decent enough purpose and certainly were necessary for some period of time after the 2000-2002 period recession(s), but the fact that they have been injecting a couple hundred billion dollars over the quarter or two and are now considering creating 1 trillion new dollars (basically a giant injection of inflation all at once) to pull our collective ass out of this mess seems a pretty strong indicator that maybe maintaining minimum inflation and rock bottom interest rates for 6+ years wasn't the greatest idea.

Adamiscold :
"When we bought our home 2 years ago we were allowed to use 75% of our income to qualify for a mortgage
“A $220,000 mortgage is only about 200 bucks more a month then what we were paying to rent our apartment”

You make valid points, but... it all comes back to the downpayment. Someone that needs to use 75% of their income is not going to have a 20% deposit in the bank. Certainly they have not been living on 25% of their income and banking the rest for a rainy day. And saying a mortgage is only about $200 a month more is stepping onto a slippery slope. $200 is a lot of money if you don't have it, and add to that taxes, insurance, the occasional new refidgerator.

traderfjp::
"People were buying homes and then refinancing them when the got into debt."

Same story, people that are responsible enough to save for a down payment generally won't be getting into debt so far they have to refinance.

spc : "You forgot the main ingredient, 10 million cans of irresponsible, not so bright consumers."

Sadly, you are right. It's only recently that I've begun to realize how many people do not have the knowledge to read or understand. They believe what the salesman says and are sold a story. A couple of years ago my cousin took a job working for a second rate mortgage place. The stories she told made me quiver, and after a while she couldn't do it any more and left the job. But... that too comes back to the down payment.

And Devil, There may have only been three houses to choose from, but there were 47,000 mobile homes on private lots.

Just an observation.
Remember all the reports of "No Inflation" coming from Washington?
I think a lot of folks actually believed them.
I live in an area that is a favorite of "flatlanders" NYC n Boston n Jersey" to come up and show us common folks how to do it right.
Like take for instance 6 years ago a uncleared lot could be had for $2500 an acre . Now some of the folks from "down there" are snatching up bargins at $20,000 an acre .Just cant figure how trees n brush just got worth 10 times what they were a few years ago and to boot we dont have any inflation. Fuel prices had to triple before they would admitt we have a wee tad of a problem but they still sit in the Ivory Towers bickering over what not to do
Its time to OUST ALL INCUMBENTS I can dream cant I?
PS Property Values have dropped like rocks.....So we are getting "re-evaluated" I just bet that taxes will be up instead of down like they should be dropping value means taxes down in a perfect world doesnt it??
"The home next to you sold up for a Gazzillon $$$ That means yours is worth a Gazzilion...."Pay me more" taxes down..Somebody slap me

I found this chart. It is from a Gov. agency. Inflation is a problem for everyone. We could all use more dollars in our pockets - not less. I agree with Paul about the poor policies of our government and how there obscene use of our dollars is the root cause for inflation. If we had a financial meltdown with the lending intuitions in this country, AIG and a few other big firms were allowed to fold then we would have more unemployment, the economy would slow more and there would be less money for speculation. This would rebalance our economy. Every time the Gov. steps in they print more money and artificially try to keep the stock market from taking a big fall. Once the stock market tumbles people will stop spending and business will have to cut jobs, etc. I don't want to see people lose homes and get hurt but then again I don't want to pay 6.00 for a carvel cone. Something has to give and I think the answer is to let the markets find their own equilibrium. The boys in Washington plotting these line graphs must be on some type of drug.

traderfjp wrote: The boys in Washington plotting these line graphs must be on some type of drug.

Ya, it's called our, our children and our grandchildren's money!

Freddy wrote:Adamiscold :

You make valid points, but... it all comes back to the downpayment. Someone that needs to use 75% of their income is not going to have a 20% deposit in the bank. Certainly they have not been living on 25% of their income and banking the rest for a rainy day. And saying a mortgage is only about $200 a month more is stepping onto a slippery slope. $200 is a lot of money if you don't have it, and add to that taxes, insurance, the occasional new refidgerator.

That's where the plastic comes in. And it's not just the occasional refrigerator. That's an essential. It's all the creature comforts put on plastic. It's Credit that Killed the Beast!

To my way of thinking what is needed here is a more realistic overall attitude towards business & its regulation by government. We have tried a "Free Market"....no rules approach to government oversight for the last 8 years & we are practically back in the Depression of 1929 because of it. We have also tried to much regulation, which does tend to stifle business. IMO, what is needed is a little common sense, which has been recently lacking but understands two pretty solid principles:

1. Left unchecked, most businesses will succumb to a mentality of "Corporate Greed" & therefore must be reasonably regulated.
2. Business will always be more efficient & productive than government.


Therefore, we need to grow up (mentally) in this country & admit that some regulation is necessary but too much is not good either, & that any politician that tries to sell you a simple, "I can explain it in a 2 minute "Sound Bite" idea is full of you know what! It will never be simple or easy & will require compromise on both sides to ever really work.

We're not anywhere near the depression levels in this country. Our economy is still very strong but if you mess with the banks and the stockmarket things can go from bad to ugly real quick. That is why the GOv. stepped in.

traderfjp wrote:We're not anywhere near the depression levels in this country. Our economy is still very strong

Come on Trader.....I'm 62 years old & I don't ever remember major banks & businesses failing on a daily basis, people lined up on the street outside of banks (to get their money) & massive government bailouts (using our tax money) to save our economy, coal, wood & pellet stoves sold out of because people are panicked about freezing to death this winter!
This is the worst economic situation since the Great Depression & hiding our heads in the sand will not change that.
Turning back to the topic of this thread, I think it very unwise to listen to the very politicians (& their thinking) that got us into this mess to get us out. Washington needs to be flushed out!
As voters, we can argue about who needs to take over but there can be no reasonable argument for staying on the same course that got us here in the first place!