The Fox Still Has The Keys To The Hen House!

Anyone feel comfortable with the man who has arguably caused our financial disaster, still standing in the Rose Garden & saying: "Follow Me.......I'll show you the way out!"

(Please go on vacation George & let the grownups handle this)

I'm wondering what "grown ups" you are expecting to do something here, besides Bush and his administration? Obama has abdicated any semblance of leadership on this with his recent statements of "waiting to see" what Treasury, the Fed, and the administration do. Reid said "no one knows what to do". Pelosi apparently agreed because she and Reid decided that it was a good time to bug out and shut down the congress again, which is precisely what they did when the people were clamoring for government action on a new energy policy with regard to drilling, oil shale, and other sources over the summer.

I don't agree with what they are doing. The bailouts hopefully won't be too bad since all the assets will end up being sold off over time and the bailout money repaid through those sales or through loans paid back by the companies. It is the cash injections into the reserve system and the banks that is the problem. They are basically printing money and hosing down the economy with it in hopes of preventing bank runs and keeping these banks solvent as the mortgages and credit lines fail. This money isn't coming back to us, it is out there diluting the value of the dollar and likely to trigger some snapback inflation if they aren't very careful.

But back to your point, none of your favored "grown ups" are stepping up with anything. They're waiting, complaining, and tossing around political blame. The blame game is particularly ludicrous when they are just as much to blame for this mess as anyone in government, particularly when McCain was proposing a bill in 2005-2006 to reign in the corruption and lack of oversight on these very businesses very few joined him. Chris Dodd and Barney Frank actively fought against it. A couple of Republicans, such as Pete Bond, were also in the pocket of these companies and fought against reform. Obama was a non-player, silent on it as usual. Bush didn't take up the cause and join McCain and lead on this like he should have.

Government failed on this. They created these quasi private mortgage lenders that inherently were bad for the market back whenever, they put in place directives to encourage these subprime loans to risky borrowers back in the 90's, they were bought off by hundreds of millions in lobbying efforts to keep oversight away so those quasi private companies could go well beyond their mandates and become unwieldy behemoths with mountains of highly risky debt that they assumed would be covered by the government if the *censored* hit the fan, they did nothing when presented with a clear picture of the coming problem and a plan to fight it, Greenspan and Bush pushed a loose money Fed policy in combating the recession in 2000-2003 that exacerbated the lending and thus the problem we face today.

Everyone is to blame, from the people lying on mortgage applications and buying well beyond their means, to the brokers and the lenders not doing due diligence and playing fast and loose to make a fat commission, to the analysts providing media and investor advisory cover for it all until it was too late, to the major banks and investment houses deluding themselves and their stockholders into thinking these subprime mortgage bundled securities weren't nearly as risky as they were and playing games with their accounting to make themselves rich with bonuses they didn't deserve, to two sitting administrations and several sitting congresses egging it all on and doing nothing to prevent it despite the warnings that a few made.

pvolcko wrote:I'm wondering what "grown ups" you are expecting to do something here, besides Bush and his administration? Obama has abdicated any semblance of leadership on this with his recent statements of "waiting to see" what Treasury, the Fed, and the administration do.

I hardly call it "abdication" to want to look at a proposal, announced only hours ago, before making a decision on its merits. I'm a Ron Paul supporter & I think he is also taking some time to digest this, brand new proposal too. That's the prudent thing to do.

pvolcko wrote:I don't agree with what they are doing

I agree. Hardly seems to be a Republican concept for us to "Socialize" these debts!! (funny to hear the "Hands Off Business" & "let the market take care of itself" BS artists suddenly, out of sheer desperation, turn Socialists!(who are these guys really?......Whatever is politically expedient right now is what they favor!...They have no core beliefs!

pvolcko wrote:McCain was proposing a bill in 2005-2006 to reign in the corruption and lack of oversight on these very businesses very few joined him.

Come on Paul......That's the oldest trick in the Congressional book!! (Periodically, issue quiet, un-noticed written statements or propose an obscure bill supporting both sides of any issue & then, no matter which side proves right.....You win!! Do you remember McCain making a strong public case for this?....I sure don't!
If your position is on both sides....You have no real position....You are simply a 26 years Senator covering his butt!

McCain has been a "De regulator" all of his life......Suddnly he's selling himself as in favor of government regulations?!?...BS!
He is so desperate that he flip-flops on a daily basis now! Two days ago he was against a bailout of AIG....Then yesterday he's in favor of it!! (he has no core beliefs.,....He's Hillary Clinton without the breasts!
What is that phrase again???.....Oh right: "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig!"

I agree. Hardly seems to be a Republican concept for us to "Socialize" these debts!! (funny to hear the "Hands Off Business" & "let the market take care of itself" BS artists suddenly, out of sheer desperation, turn Socialists!

To be fair there are a large number of Republicans in congress, analysts are places like AEI and Cato (and just about all of them among the blog community from the looks of it) that are against these ongoing bailouts. And don't mistake my "the bailouts will be repaid" statement before as approval of this plan. I'm very suspect of it on practical and philosophical grounds.

If anything the fact that Bush is pushing this kind of solution is evidence that puts the lie to the Obama and democrat claim that he is some kind of doctrinaire far-right conservative. Don't want to go off topic here so I'll leave it at that.

Back to McCain, just because he, like most Republicans and conservatives, are for less regulation doesn't mean we don't see the need and benefit of effective, purposeful, non-partisan regulation and oversight. McCain can be for less regulation as a general principle yet be able to see when there is a hole in the regulation regime that needs to be filled, as he did publicly voice with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in 2005-2006 time frame. Similarly Bill Clinton of leftist bent can be generally in favor of traditional social welfare programs yet see a time and place where new thinking can be beneficial on that front, as he did in '96 with the "Workfare" program championed by Republicans and which he signed and claims as a good point in his resume. The difference here is that McCain was all but alone in the Senate in his prescience and vocal support of reform and tighter regulation for Fannie and Freddie and the good idea died from lack of political will (the ignorance helped along by the lobbying of those two companies, another area McCain has been a long time advocate of reform on) on both sides of Congress and in the White House.

pvolcko wrote:If anything the fact that Bush is pushing this kind of solution is evidence that puts the lie to the Obama and democrat claim that he is some kind of doctrinaire far-right conservative.

That's your interpretation of Bush's motives & thinking Paul. My interpretation is of a man (Bush) who has less than 4 months left to manage this "House Of Cards", that he has destroyed the foundation of (by crippling legitimate government oversight & allowing corporate greed to take over)) & now just wants to slip out the back door & leave all his messes up to the next President. (Economy, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran........etc

He's a panic stricken, cynical, unintelligent, shallow little man who has always been in way over his head as President , & we are all paying the price for him now!


As Winston Churchill once said about Clement Atllee, but equally applies to Bush:

Mr. Attlee is a very modest man. Indeed he has a lot to be modest about.
Winston Churchill

Actually that was my interpretation of Obama's and the Democrat meme this campaign cycle that Bush is a doctrinaire far-right conservative. Regardless what his motivations in these latest moves are, which I never delved into, it is clear it is not a doctrinaire far-right conservative way of handling the situation. Bush has done this non-conservative thing many times in his 8 years, this is the latest example of it. That's all I'm saying.

But I understand, you have an insatiable need to voice your disgust and hatred for Bush that blinds you to the points us righties are making. I'll let it go.

I didn't read all of this thread so forgive me if I'm wandering off topic.

I don't know the name of who is to blame, but I know the one thing changed that led to these mortgage & bank issues. Whoever made that change is an idiot. The person that made it so someone could get a mortgage with no down payment was an imbecile, plain & simple. That one fact is the foundation to most all of this.

" Oh, good morning Sir! You'd like to buy a house? Well, of course we'll loan you $220,000, just sign here. Ohhh, don't worry, It will always be worth more than you paid for it."

Freddy wrote:I don't know the name of who is to blame, but I know the one thing changed that led to these mortgage & bank issues. Whoever made that change is an idiot. The person that made it so someone could get a mortgage with no down payment was an imbecile, plain & simple. That one fact is the foundation to most all of this.

I think your "Recipe For Economic Failure" Freddy is very simply this:

Take one part unbridled corporate greed....
Add a "Let Business Do Whatever It Wants'" attitude rule the White House for a number of years .. ...
Add a healthy heaping of a Congress unwilling or hampered from providing their oversight responsibilities for 12 of the last 14 years....
Simmer slowly for eight years


Voila!



& let's not forget that while our country is imploding financially, we taxpayers are still paying 10 billion per month in Iraq for........???........Think that money could be more wisely used right here to help us?

You forgot the main ingredient, 10 million cans of irresponsible, not so bright consumers.

spc wrote:You forgot the main ingredient, 10 million cans of irresponsible, not so bright consumers.

I didn't forget Stephen. You see, most of those "cans" were not irresponsible, but were (instead) tampered with through "Bait & Switch" & many other illegal sales tactics.

Devil505 wrote:I didn't forget Stephen. You see, most of those "cans" were not irresponsible, but were (instead) tampered with through "Bait & Switch" & many other illegal sales tactics.

That's where the "not so bright" comes in to play.
As far as "illegal sales tactics" prosecute them.

spc wrote:As far as "illegal sales tactics" prosecute them.

Bush/McCain prosecute their rich business buddies??..Never happen!

Devil505 wrote:Bush/McCain prosecute their rich business buddies??..Never happen!

Come on Dick you can do better than that, remember this isn't the big oil argument.

spc wrote:Come on Dick you can do better than that, remember this isn't the big oil argument.

No actually.........I can't do better than that.

(Illegal mortgage scams.......Big Oil price fixing scams......Makes no difference to me what scam Bush/McCain's buddies have gotten rich from)

Man you are blinded by hatred.