Billions and Billions

Billions and Billions

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:50 pm

I have heard that phrase many times in my short life (I'm now 50). Of course when I used to hear the phrase it would remind me of watching Dr. Carl Sagan talk about the stars on the local PBS station.

Then the phrase came back in style when Dr. Evil showed up in the movies. I can't remember what movie it was, Spy that shagged me, or some other movie with Mike Myers but it was funny none the less.

Now we have bankers and legislators talking billions and billions, together none the less. This is the first time however that the phrase has absolutely shook me to the core.

We all knew something was wrong long ago or we wouldn't even be here worried about burning coal to keep warm, and saving some money. No what has me shook is that the same squad that has gotten us here seems to know exactly how to get us out of this mess.
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: SAU On: Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:29 pm

You know what sucks? There are no classes in public school that teaches this stuff. Perhaps five percent of the American population even understands what is going on with the banking system. The funny thing is that Communist China knows exactly what is happening to Capitalism turned Socialism.
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: vtec350 On: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:06 am

SAU wrote:You know what sucks? There are no classes in public school that teaches this stuff.


I've been saying that for years now. I know so many kids who are in college and they have no idea how to balance a check book, then ask them what principal and interest are,and the basic understanding of a loan, forget it they're lost. All you http://primapanama.blogs.com/_panama_residential_devel/
have to do is watch the Suze Orman show on CNBC on Sat. nights it will make you sick the stupidity of the average person finacially. There's so many on their who are in this mortgage mess and all they can say is "we didn't understand what we were getting into". Don't you think that when you're making the biggest purchase of your life you would have an attorny explain things to you if you didn't understand it?? I'm so sick of people tying to blame everyone else for their screwups when it's usually thier own faults.

Now we have these billion dollar bail outs to keep these big companies from folding ? After the CEO has usually taken his 65 million bonus, it's a huge slap in the face to all of us. Now these same bunch of idiots have a plan to save us, BS, it's only putting a band aid on an open wound. We're ( the gov't) writting checks we can't even afford to, for companies who *censored* up big time only because of greed. I think all them greedy bastards should be held accountable for this mortgage mess and knowingly writting bad loans to people who couldn't afford them and they should all be put in jail for it. But no, we're going to give them more money to save their ass so they can eventually turn around and do it again. Ok, I'm done ranting for now :taz: you all have a good day knowing we'll be paying for this mess for 3 generations :mad: :mad: .

Dave
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:19 am

jeromemsn wrote:No what has me shook is that the same squad that has gotten us here seems to know exactly how to get us out of this mess.



Kinda like Al Capone vowing to stop all that illegal bootlegging if we'll just elect him mayor of Chicago. toothy
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: BugsyR On: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:19 pm

vtec350 wrote:
SAU wrote:You know what sucks? There are no classes in public school that teaches this stuff.


I've been saying that for years now. I know so many kids who are in college and they have no idea how to balance a check book, then ask them what principal and interest are,and the basic understanding of a loan, forget it they're lost.



My senior year in High School I took a math course called "Applied Math". I had already joined the Navy and stopped taking all of the required higher maths. Applied Math was a mixed bag of students...College Prep, Gen Academics, Secretarial, Business, etc etc...basically it was an elective. Best Damn math course I ever had. It taught basic life math...tax forms, checking accounts, covered all the interests, etc, etc, etc. They force the college prep high schooler to take a second language that they won't use after high school but won't teach them how to fill out a 1040EZ...makes no sense to me in a country that loves to take money from their citizens... :?
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:12 pm

It goes far deeper than the basic math though. I think it is paramount for the populace to understand that when they take out a loan, the bank essentially creates that money from thin air. The supposed reserves of cash that you borrow against aren't even there for the largest part. So, being a banker is in essence a license to create money from thin air that you can charge interest against.

The Federal Reserve buys U.S. bonds on the open market with invented (by CONgress and signed by the President), fictional money, and those purchases then become the reserve base for the banking system to invent money. Fed money is multiplied by the banks 9 times, so $1,000 in Fed money becomes $9,000 in bank money.



http://theuniverseas.com/the-burden-of-debt-based-money-the-core-issue
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


Understanding that you are paying a fee to a bank for money that did not exist before your loan application was accepted, and that you are paying interest to the bankers on money that you created should make you want to puke your guts up.

This little slide show last four minutes and explains the system in a manner so simple a 10 year old can understand

http://chrismartenson.com/money_creation

Furthermore, from the Feds own site.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#5

Who owns the Federal Reserve?

The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.

As the nation's central bank, the Federal Reserve derives its authority from the U.S. Congress. It is considered an independent central bank because its decisions do not have to be ratified by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branch of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the Board of Governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms. However, the Federal Reserve is subject to oversight by Congress, which periodically reviews its activities and can alter its responsibilities by statute. Also, the Federal Reserve must work within the framework of the overall objectives of economic and financial policy established by the government. Therefore, the Federal Reserve can be more accurately described as "independent within the government."

The twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks, which were established by Congress as the operating arms of the nation's central banking system, are organized much like private corporations--possibly leading to some confusion about "ownership." For example, the Reserve Banks issue shares of stock to member banks. However, owning Reserve Bank stock is quite different from owning stock in a private company. The Reserve Banks are not operated for profit, and ownership of a certain amount of stock is, by law, a condition of membership in the System. The stock may not be sold, traded, or pledged as security for a loan; dividends are, by law, 6 percent per year.


If it is a "not for profit" organization, just who is it that is receiving the 6% dividends. Andrew Jackson threw the bankers out in 1835 and the U.S. was debt free for the first time in history. the National debt began to grow again but slowly and in a relatively manageable way, until the War of Northern Aggression. The Federal Reserve was created because the bankers told our leaders in 1913 that they could control the economy better than free markets. As a matter of course they have done no such thing, as can be witnessed by the Great Depression, the 70's and today. In fact, if you wish to do the research it is easy to find that the Federal Government exasperated the Great Depression by meddling in the "free" markets. The reason the Fed can claim to be backed by the U.S. government is because at the same time our leaders passed the income tax laws. Before 1913 there was no federal income tax. Coincidence? I don't think so.

History is like news, if you want the truth you must seek it out. Truth will not jump out of the television, consume the mainstream media with care.
SAU
 
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: chabbo On: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:56 pm

Good post, Sau. Eliminate the federal reserve and tie the dollar back to gold, silver or something else of tangible value, and repeal the federal income tax and replace it with a national sales tax that taxes conumerism and promotes savings. Radical? Yes. But will it work to address the real issues confronting US financial instability?

Manny
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: chabbo On: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:07 pm

From an article I read today I can see why our founding fathers wanted the US currency on a standard like gold and silver.

quote:
“Before 1933 the people themselves had an effective way to demand economy [from politicians]. Before 1933, whenever the people became disturbed over federal spending, they could redeem their paper currency in gold, and wait for common sense to return to Washington. That happened on various occasions and conditions sometimes became strained, but nothing occurred like the ultimate consequences of paper money inflation.

When the people's right to restrain public spending by demanding gold coin was taken away from them, the automatic flow of strength from the grass-roots to enforce economy in Washington was disconnected."
http://www.financialsense.com/editorial ... /0922.html

Whether we can or can't return to a gold and silver standard for our currency, we can understand how it gives the people more power over government instead of vice versa.

Manny
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Re: Billions and Billions

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:31 pm

We have got to put a cap on the governments ability to spend money into existence if we are to maintain what is left of the Constitution.


Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 8 - Powers of Congress.

...To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; This Congress passed on to the Fed in December 23rd 1913 While many congressmen were in their home states for Christmas

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;...

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 10 - Powers Prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

As long as Congress can spend money that does not exist we will be in debt as a nation. Our manufacturing base has been decimated through the greed of bankers and corporations. Reading the Articles above, can one really jump to the conclusion that the Founders wanted the system now in place to exist? They understood the banking industry in England well, and did not have a desire to go down that road.
SAU
 
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