Installation of New Keystoker K18

My dealer suggests that I bush down the In and Outflow feeds to the K18 to 1". The feeds are both >2". I am heating >13,000 sq feet with 11 zones (3/4" copper outfeed zones). My existing Weil McClain oil Boilers have feeds of 2". It just seems to me that this bushing down will cause a flow obstruction, however I see that most Flex-Pex insulated Pipe is 1n the 1" to 1+1/8" range. Duel Flex-Pex is hughly expensive and I don't want to spend that much and have it later be a restrictive problem. I plan on a remote out-building instalation.... What should I do? Thank you....I'm new to this whole Coal Burning process!..... JPS

Hi jps, welcome to the forum.

I'd run parallel 1" feed and return lines. two out, two back. you will probably pay less for two 1" pex-al-pex tubes than for one pair of 2" pex tubing.. A single 1" will not be enough for that many BTU's,, no matter what size circulator you put on it.. How far away is the 'remote location' ?

What is the BTU capacity of your current boiler, and how much fuel did it burn last season? Your KA18 is the largest Keystoker boiler on this forum that I know of. How many BTU is it capable of??

Greg L.

Thanks for your help! In response to your questions.. I have two Weil McLain Boilers hooked in tandom, one to go on when the other can't keep up. One is a P-WGO-6 rated at 184,000 BTU/hr, the other is a P-WGO-5 rated at 152,000 BTU/hr. The K18 is rated at 432,000 BTU. I burned 4,500 gal last season. I figure it will take about 23+ ton of coal to match the same output. The insulated dual 1" pex is very expensive and most of my run will not be underground, but in the basement area, so I could probably use 1" Pex and just put the hardware store foam tubing wraps around it, and like you said run two in and two out. The run from one end of the building to the existing boilers is about 140feet. There is a copper hot water coil in the K18 for potable hot water supply, but one of my zones goes to a hot water tank coil in the basement so I wanted to use the K18 coil for the indoor swimming pool. I'm told that if the alkalinity of the pool gets off it will eat through the copper coil. Does Keystoker or after market make a stainless coil, and would that stand up better to pool water? Thanks again... JPS

Your dealer does not know what he is talking about, you will only be pumping 14.2 GPM with 2-1" pipes instead of 45 GPM, not to mention the BTU ratings, see attachment. Hope this answers your question.

Mazzy

Hi JPS, please note that regular 1" pex is about 3/4" id, Pex-al-pex is 1" id, if MOST of your piping is inside you can use 1.5" or 2" iron pipe or copper,, do a cost comparision. Use the insulated pex only underground and maybe in unheated parts of the run.

Your place sounds like a real big nice energy hog,, mine is the energy hogg, without much of the 'nice'. I would burn about 5-6000 gallons of Propane to keep my house and shop at the temps and comfort level I do on coal.

You can use a water/water heat exchanger for your pool, they are stainless steel. and don't mix the waters.

Take a look here: http://shop.ebay.com/items/_W0QQ_nkwZplateQ20exch ... R40QQ_mdoZ

Hope this helps.. Greg L

Since you say you have two boilers and 11 zones it's likely it's piped as a primary secondary system. Is it? If so the best way to add the coal boiler would be to pipe the supply and returns directly into the primary piping. You have a primary secondary system if there are closely spaced tees in a piping loop that goes to your zones and to your two boilers. The piping resistance of 1 inch PEX will be too great to transfer your BTU load with any reasonable sized pump. My suggestion would be to pipe it with 1-1/2 inch copper or steel pipe and size the pump for your desired BTU load. You can run the pipes underground in a large PVC conduit, either rigid or flexible. You insulate each boiler pipe with regular pipe insulation first.

The domestic hot water heater coil will not be useful to heat your pool. You will need another zone and a heat exchanger for the pool. Plus some controls to make pool heating the lowest priority.

Thanks Jmmazzy, guess two 1" pex lines are quite different than one 2" line.

Thankyou as well Greg L, I guess the water to water heat exchangers don't need to be in the boiler room, we could mount one in the Pool Utility room and have the hot water from the boiler go to it thru a separate zone and the pool water run thru it on the other side? Is that the concept as to how they work or do they have to be somehow emersed in the pool??? JPS

Thanks Yanche. I need to better see my boiler setup? Could you expand on the controlls to make the pool second prioity? Thanks again JPS

Hey JPS, I see you found the fountain of coal knowledge

Using Grainger's pricing the 280' run would cost $1400 for 2" copper. Pricey for sure but your BTU delivery would be solid.
I'm surprised that 2" black pipe is substantially higher than copper.

These guys LOVE pics, any photos of the existing tie in points will help.

See you at the Guernsey

JPS0875 wrote:Thanks Yanche. I need to better see my boiler setup? Could you expand on the controlls to make the pool second prioity? Thanks again JPS

A priority control can be as simple as a couple of relays. Basically you don't want to heat the pool when your need heat in any of your other zones. What kind of controls do you now have for your zones?

Wow..looks like I picked the wrong item at Graingers website!

Copper would run over $4500 for 280' (163.75 per 10')

Maybe 2" black iron at $2200 (78.45 per 10')...yikes!

By: JPS0875 On: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:05 pm

Thanks Jmmazzy, guess two 1" pex lines are quite different than one 2" line.

pi r squared to figure area of a circle

3.14*.5 squared equals 2.46 for 1 inch pex

3.14*1 squared equals 9.86 for 2" pipe almoust 4 times the area

You might be better off constructing a small reactor. 13k sq. ft it a lot of space to heat. Good luck.

218Bee wrote:Wow..looks like I picked the wrong item at Graingers website!

Copper would run over $4500 for 280' (163.75 per 10')

Maybe 2" black iron at $2200 (78.45 per 10')...yikes!

One inch pex at 300' can be had for around $355 a roll. http://www.houseneeds.com/shop/HeatingProducts/Ra ... nchbuy.asp Just a quick search but should be able to be found cheaper.

Hey Rick, thanks for the pipe info, It sounds like for the decrease in flow resistance and increase in BTU output I should do the 2" hard pipe.
I'm not sure how to post pics here? I'm begining to think the fellow's idea about the nuc reactor is not so far fetched!.. I thought you quit the Gournsey....Take care Paul