Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: dudleynepa On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:11 pm

I'm just a little unsure of the terminology here. The horizontal take-off of the Tee I bought has no crimps in it. It appears that it is the same diameter as the RC baro, I tried forcing the damper into the horizontal take-off, wouldn't go, gave up, took beer break. It wasn't until I saw this post here on the site, someone mentioned having them bump out the take-off.
barometric damper

I have already dropped the Tee and baro at Olympia, may be too late to change, wheels already in motion. I did ask them to shorten take-off an inch,, may still be slightly longer than the 2 inches you show,, will see when I get it back.
dudleynepa
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska Stoker

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: 2001Sierra On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:19 pm

If you use a Type M baro in a normal T you do not need to cut the T.
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2001Sierra
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90 Chimney vent
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Buderus Oil Boiler 3115-34
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker 90 Chimney Vent

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: Dennis On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:23 pm

I like the way your stove pipe matches your stove.
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size


Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:12 pm

That brass estruceon is a nice detail too!
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: Paperboy On: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:30 pm

I have had my type M baro mounted in a bullhead tee since 2008, and it works fine for me too. As has been said before, all the factors which effect draft at your location will determine how well it works for you. (chimney height, type of stove, flue dimensions, etc.) You can always try it, and then change it if you don't feel that you are getting the performance you desire.
Paperboy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska Kodiak; Atlanta Homesteader
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska; Atlanta
Stove/Furnace Model: Kodiak; Homesteader

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: Sleeper735 On: Sun Oct 19, 2014 9:41 pm

I wish I could have been around when this was an active thread. The reason they don't want it in the bull head tee is the gasses turbulate and that can cause the baro to think the pressure is lower and close off more then make your draft go higher. Also you will never and I will say again never have your chimney pipe go positive if you hold open the baro with your boiler, stove , or furnace running if your chimney is proper size and height. Notice I said height that actually means more than the size. I can show you a 7-8 inch flue 20 foot that you can put less btus then a 6 inch square chimney at 35-40 foot. So who ever says gasses will leak out are wrong. I am a commercial hvac tech and can tell you a lot of the people giving advice on here should sit back and not give advice on things they don't know much about. The other thing is you should actually be taking your draft at 3 places 1 over fire 2 before the barometric and 3 after baro before chimney. Of course all 3 you don't need to monitor unless you have a issue.
Sleeper735
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 105 DV

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:59 pm

Sleeper735 wrote:So who ever says gasses will leak out are wrong. I am a commercial hvac tech and can tell you a lot of the people giving advice on here should sit back and not give advice on things they don't know much about.


Yes I agree that you should not give bad advice, such as your statement that gasses will not leak with a baro installed in the running part of a tee in place of an elbow. In certain installations with the pipe coming straight up from the boiler it most definitely will leak. More so with an oil burner that starts with a bit of puff as it ignites. Many other installations it will work fine.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: Sleeper735 On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 3:33 pm

My question would be how come your oil burner starts up and has an explosion that causes the stack and chimmeny to go positive. You should find a new burner tech that knows how to set one up. Also explain to me the situations that it wouldn't work and your expertise on this subject if you want to call me out on it.
Sleeper735
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 105 DV

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:26 pm

Sleeper735 wrote:My question would be how come your oil burner starts up and has an explosion that causes the stack and chimmeny to go positive. You should find a new burner tech that knows how to set one up. Also explain to me the situations that it wouldn't work and your expertise on this subject if you want to call me out on it.


All oil burners of the gun type ignite and are full on almost instantaneously creating a momentary pressure wave in the unit and pipe. A baro flap slightly open will close briefly in response until things equalize. A draft gauge in the pipe will respond to the burner ignition. The ignition itself is a small explosion to use your word. Examine the back of almost any baro flap and it will not look like the front because of contact with flue gas. A rotary burner ignites slowly and is not subject to this to the same degree. Coal does not have that problem with ignition as it is slow and steady, but as coldsweat pointed out, installing the baro in a tee replacing that first elbow is still subject to excessive turbulence at that point as the flue gas has to make a 90 degree turn.

As to my expertise, I hate to say it because it means nothing, but can't resist. I was literally doing this while you were still in diapers and had a NYC license to do so.

I only responded because of your assumption that there are a bunch of dummy's in this forum. If you hang around I think you will find otherwise.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: scalabro On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:47 pm

Some of this discussion is moot....at least the way I read it.

I had one on my MKII so I was guilty.

Here is why.

From NFPA 211 (the older free version, the new version may not have this phrase)

12.4.5 Connection to Masonry Fireplaces.
12.4.5.1 A natural draft solid fuel-burning appliance such as a stove or insert shall be permitted to use a masonry fireplace flue where the following conditions are met:

(7) Means shall be provided to prevent dilution of combustion products in the chimney flue with air from the habitable space.
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:00 pm

scalabro wrote:Some of this discussion is moot....at least the way I read it.

I had one on my MKII so I was guilty.

Here is why.

From NFPA 211 (the older free version, the new version may not have this phrase)

12.4.5 Connection to Masonry Fireplaces.
12.4.5.1 A natural draft solid fuel-burning appliance such as a stove or insert shall be permitted to use a masonry fireplace flue where the following conditions are met:

(7) Means shall be provided to prevent dilution of combustion products in the chimney flue with air from the habitable space.


I think they are referring to sealing around the smoke pipe where it passes through the damper area. You would not want uncontrolled room air passing around the smoke pipe which would lower draft through the stove.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: scalabro On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:02 pm

Fair point, but a baro does EXACTLY what the reg speaks against.
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:12 pm

scalabro wrote:Fair point, but a baro does EXACTLY what the reg speaks against.


Yes, but the baro is controlled air and will close if draft is low.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: scalabro On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:20 pm

franco b wrote:
scalabro wrote:Fair point, but a baro does EXACTLY what the reg speaks against.


Yes, but the baro is controlled air and will close if draft is low.


Yes, but they are NOT airtight, thus they can still leak either room air into the flue or much worse cause combustion gasses to leak into a living area.

It's my belief a strict inspector or zealous insurance claims adjuster would hang you on it.
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: Can I install the Baro in a TEE? Field Controls says NO

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:34 pm

scalabro wrote:Yes, but they are NOT airtight, thus they can still leak either room air into the flue or much worse cause combustion gasses to leak into a living area.

It's my belief a strict inspector or zealous insurance claims adjuster would hang you on it.

Your quoted code is for stovepipe into a fireplace flue and does not relate in any way, shape or form to a baro in a stovepipe. They want the stovepipe sealed in the damper area when using a stove or insert for obvious reasons.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea