UPDATE 9/24 One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

UPDATE 9/24 One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Joe B On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:50 pm

Update - I tightened the draft wheel, got a full load to the blue dancing flame point. Closed damper, and closed draft wheel 98%. Perfect burn for between 6 & 7 hours. Now I have two questions. I was advised to get a manometer, but can't afford one, and know no one with one. Would a barometric damper without using a manometer help or not? Secondly, why do I get intact coals in the firepot. As the fire was dying this morning I am left with burnt coals in pot. Is this normal? Every burn I have had always has a varying degree left. Coals are mostly intact ash. Starts on top layer as fire dies off. My goal is to have at least an 8 hr burn so I could run for whole season w/o relighting. I had previously asked about best size coal. I have been testing with a mixed Reading bag. Thank you all again.



Thanks for all the advice in y overfiring question. I have a Vogelzang Rancher coal stoke that I modified (thanks to suggestions) to burn anthracite coal. It was glowing in spots. I coated the firepot in refractory cement, and also lined the ash pit, and sealed the door. I got a great burn last night as far as even heat, but now need to figure out how to keep it lit longer. According to their website the firepot holds 20lbs of coal. I burned for about 4hours last night when I saw it getting lower so I tried shaking and refilling, but ended up putting it out. I had the draft wheel shut, and the damper closed during the burn. I am testing with a 40lb bag of Reading coal (mixed sizes). My reclaimer fan went off at 4 hours which is why I checked. Any ideas how to keep this fire going longer. I was hoping to keep it through the night. Thank you.
Last edited by Joe B on Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:04 pm

Joe B wrote:I had the draft wheel shut, and the damper closed during the burn


Not a good sign Joe. If your fire burns fine with everything closed then you have no way of controlling it. It's still getting air from somewhere. Is there any way to seal the draft wheel better? (tighten it or make a gasket somehow?)

If your firepot will only hold 20lbs of coal you aren't going to be able to get long burns with much heat output, especially when the real cold weather hits.....The stove is just too small.

You can either get pretty comfortable for a short time (hot fire) or just try to "take the edge off" the cold with a cool, longer burn.


Good luck & stay safe! (I assume you have smoke & CO detectors set up & operating)
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:04 pm

To maintain an anthracite fire you need a very deep bed of coal, about 8 or more inches. I think you need a lot more than 20 lbs. Before you shake it, you will need to rev the fire up. Open the ash door a few minutes and let the fire get good and hot. Then shake it down until you see a few live coals drop into the ash pit, then reload it. Shaking a cold fire is a death sentence for it.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

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Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Joe B On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:09 pm

The bed is about 10" deep. I could try to seal the wheel better. Thank you. I am trying for taking the edge off during the night. What size coal would you recommend? Does it matter?
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:18 pm

Joe B wrote:What size coal would you recommend? Does it matter?


I would try nut or bigger.
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:23 pm

:shock: Stick with nut, running stove in that thing might make it disappear.

How tall is your chimney and do you have a barometric damper?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Joe B On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:30 pm

No barometric damper> Chimney is about 24" tall. Probably pulls too much of a draft. Live on a hill. I cannot add anything to the chimney (i.e. damper) because alot of the chimneys weight is on the stove, and I am not taking the whole ting down. Thanks again.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Joe B On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:32 pm

24 feet that is.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:12 pm

You can mount a baro right to the side of the stovepipe with a pair of tinsnips without taking any pipe down. There is an adapter that comes with the baro for this. I would get or borrow (the forum has a loaner program) a manometer or draft gauge and see what is going on in the stovepipe draft wise. If it is strong, it can be a big cause of overfiring, and possibly why your fire only lasts a short time. It will also suck your heat up the chimney instead of heating your home.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: SemperFi On: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:11 am

Joe, You state that the whole weight of the chimney pipe is suported by the stove alone. I assume that it goes rite through the roof. What is holding it where it exits the roof? 24 feet of stainless chimney pipe must weight around 250 lbs. If the pipe connects on the back edge of the stove I would think that would make the stove back heavy and rather unstable if the weight trully is supported by the stove. I have a buddy who has a stove just like yours in his garage and we have yet to melt it down. It is a open 24' by 22' block garage with open rafters, no insulation, drafty enough to fly a kite in it. The stove is used for weekend projects, not steady heating. In order to heat the garage in the dead of winter he over fires this poor little bugger till it just glows, and yes this is burning coal. What I would be concerned about is the legs on the stove and there load bearing ability. If the legs are like his I would be concerned about the back legs folding under the weight of the chimney pipe. We in our infinet wisdom set a toolbox on the stove( unlit in the summer) and the back legs folded and bent the sheet metal bottom the legs attach to. Just what I have experienced. Your stove is a great little inexpensive utility heater/stove for wood/coal. My experience is that it makes a better wood stove than a coal stove. The stove is better suited for fires burning with people home to tend it. The great thing about coal is that you can leave it alone (it likes to be left alone) for better than half of a day at a time. This is in a air tight stove with depth and volume to its pot. The rancher is small and not designed to be air tight, that is what handycaps it in the coal burning arena. In my opinion there is only one modern truly coal/wood stove on the market today and that is the Harmon tlc ( had one, needed $, sold it) and it still cant burn wood fully without a reburner. I think you are fine burning coal in it if sombody is home and on fire watch all of the time and you are willing to consume way more coal than you should( the rancher will eat it up and spit it out the flue pipe). Im no expert at anything but I think you are fine with the stove using it for ITS intended purpose I just question your chimney set up and the integrity of the stove legs per your description of your set up. Welcome aboard, this is a great forum and a wealth of information.
SemperFi
 
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: H.F. hopper 90k btu

Reposted to get an answer.

PostBy: Joe B On: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:44 pm

I reposted this update question to make it an unanswered post so I would have a better chance of getting an answer. Hope that is ok. Thanks for any help.



UPDATE 9/24 One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Joe B On: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:50 pm
Update - I tightened the draft wheel, got a full load to the blue dancing flame point. Closed damper, and closed draft wheel 98%. Perfect burn for between 6 & 7 hours. Now I have two questions. I was advised to get a manometer, but can't afford one, and know no one with one. Would a barometric damper without using a manometer help or not? Secondly, why do I get intact coals in the firepot. As the fire was dying this morning I am left with burnt coals in pot. Is this normal? Every burn I have had always has a varying degree left. Coals are mostly intact ash. Starts on top layer as fire dies off. My goal is to have at least an 8 hr burn so I could run for whole season w/o relighting. I had previously askedabout best size coal. I have been testing with a mixed Reading bag. Thank you all again.
Joe B
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vogelzang
Stove/Furnace Model: Rancher

Re: UPDATE 9/24 One hurdle down One to go - Suggestions?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:13 pm

Merged you last post with this one, Please don't start a new topics on the same subject. This leads to duplication of answers that someone may have already gone over. If your topic goes unanswered after a while use the "bump" link at the bottom of the post or reply to it. This will send it to the top of the forum and reactivate the new post icon. Most people use the topic icons to look for new posts anyhow. ;)

Joe B wrote:Now I have two questions. I was advised to get a manometer, but can't afford one, and know no one with one.


There's a "community" kit available: Manometer Loaner Program
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Reposted to get an answer.

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:45 am

Joe B wrote:I was advised to get a manometer, but can't afford one, and know no one with one. Would a barometric damper without using a manometer help or not?

Secondly, why do I get intact coals in the firepot. As the fire was dying this morning I am left with burnt coals in pot. Is this normal?


If you have to much draft, yes it will help manometer or not. They will perform fairly well just from the factory markings out of the box, the gauge just fine tunes the setpoint. There is a sticky thread with a manometer loaner program run by Forum members. Another option would be post where you are and a member may bring his over and check it out for you.

Coal is not like wood where you can just throw more on a dying fire and off you go. It is a continuous process that needs to be kept in a mature state. Once it gets beyond that, it is pretty much a goner and you need to start over. You may want to stick to a 5-6 hour reloading until you get a handle on it. Also, smaller size coal will slow the burn rate. Try spreading some pea coal over the nut or blend it in with the nut when reloading.

Are you still having trouble in the center of the pot?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

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