House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: stovepipemike On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:07 am

I am wondering just how many people pulled out their money [non stock market funds] already and quietly. The loss of hard earded money is a traumatic affair. People get motivated to preserve these dollars. I think it is going on because where else is the new great idea coming from that would raise the fdic limit to 250K ? That would definately have a stabilizing effect.There might be a second avalanche underway and if there is you can be sure no one will mention it as they would never want to cause a stampede. Just my $.02 Regards, Mike
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:08 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:Glad to see that my rep, Scott Garrett, voted no.


Mine too! (Delahunt) :up:
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:19 am

Would someone in favor of this bill please answer a few simple(serious )questions for me:

1. Tell me why you want it passed right now instead of waiting just a few more months for a new administration & a new Congress can be seated & who we Americans can have more faith in their integrity & honesty? ( Do you really still trust the present administration & Congress?)

2. If your answer is that we can't wait a few months due to the dire nature of our economy, why not back a bill that will only cover a short time span until the next Congress can hammer out a permanent bill we can all have confidence in?
(if anyone from this admin or Congress tells me we must have a permanent bill now for it to work.......I'll say.....F....YOU!........then you'll get nothing!
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: vtec350 On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:40 am

Adamiscold wrote:I like the idea of raising the FDIC from 100k to 250k,


This should've been done along time ago

But, do you really trust the gov't to insure your money, I don't :mad: :mad:
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: spc On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:25 am

Devil505 wrote:Tell me why you want it passed right now instead of waiting just a few more months for a new administration


This is why:

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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:58 am

Devil505 wrote:Would someone in favor of this bill please answer a few simple(serious )questions for me:

1. Tell me why you want it passed right now instead of waiting just a few more months for a new administration & a new Congress can be seated & who we Americans can have more faith in their integrity & honesty? ( Do you really still trust the present administration & Congress?)


In a few months the credit line will be closed a lot tighter then they are now if not closed off completely. It's something that a lot of the business use regularly and by not having the the credit that they use weekly for inventory, payroll, etc. then they have no way to stay in business. The credit line in use in our world is in the double digits in the trillions, so 700 billion isn't a huge number.

Devil505 wrote:2. If your answer is that we can't wait a few months due to the dire nature of our economy, why not back a bill that will only cover a short time span until the next Congress can hammer out a permanent bill we can all have confidence in?
(if anyone from this admin or Congress tells me we must have a permanent bill now for it to work.......I'll say.....F....YOU!........then you'll get nothing!


I asked this too to the wife yesterday. Why don't they just go for the smaller number that would be the first part of their roll out plan of 300 billion instead of asking for the whole 700 billion?

In Forbes magazine they were asked how they came up with the 700 billion figure and they said "we needed a really big number to make an impact".


I agree that a lot of this is crap, especially how we got here. But I do agree that doing something is going to be a lot better then doing nothing. Even with the $700 billion more jobs will be lost and the price people paid for their homes may not get back to those values for 3-5 years.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:02 am

This Bailout really isn't a bailout at all, it is more of a rescue plan to try and keep us from going deeper into the hole that we are heading towards. They are expecting the job loss numbers this week to be over 100k bringing the total number for job losses to 700k for the year so far.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:15 am

Adamiscold wrote:This Bailout really isn't a bailout at all, it is more of a rescue plan to try and keep us from going deeper into the hole that we are heading towards. They are expecting the job loss numbers this week to be over 100k bringing the total number for job losses to 700k for the year so far.


I hear you Adam but I'm just so "gun shy" of anything THIS administration (or it's employees...like Paulson) or THIS Congress says that my attitude is......I don't believe a word any of you say & I'm willing to take my chances & wait for the next admin & the next Congress to be seated.

Further....What I say to Bush & Congress now is this:

If things are truly as desperate as you claim, then for the good of your country, why don't you all resign your offices the day after the election on 11/4 & hand over your responsibilities to the incoming people who we Americans can have faith in.......In other words.......Get out!! :lol: :devil:
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:41 am

Hi Dev, for a rare change I am with you in being happy that the bill was voted down,, at least as it was written..We are not a socialist country,, the bill would have been yet another very large step towards complete socialism

NOW.. I trust the current administration MUCH more than Obama. He voted AGAINST a bill,, remember the one Senator McCain had on the floor, in the video you called 'pornographic' [because it showed the dems in a bad, but truthful light] ?? Bill S-190 I thinkit was,, it was to put retstraints on the very cause of our current problems.. But Hillary, Obama and the Democraticly controled [mostly] congress voted it down..

So if you can't trust the people who tried in vain to stop the current disaster to help lead us out of the mess [McCain] who can you trust.. I'm with you, I'd like to see Ron Paul be in the race,, but he's not.. and way too many people are like you, associating the sound bites from the dems. [Failed Bush economic Policy" with reality..

The Bush and republican policy would have lessened the mess we are in if it hadn't been for the Dem's voting in and directing the mortage industry to have to offer high risk loans to under qualified borrowers.. typical democratic socialism.. but the economy works different.. ti works on real economic principals.. not socialistic ones..

I fear we are in for a very very rough road.. an I'm not optimistic for the world economy either.

Greg L.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:57 am

We'll just have to agree to disagree about who's mainly responsible for the current crisis Greg. (I blame the people who ran the government completely for most of the last 8 years & stopped any meaningful Congressional oversight, GW Bush, John McCain & the Republicans in Congress. I think the American people agree with me, but we'll both see the answer on 11/4)

In any case, as they say: "Politics makes strange bedfellows" so we are finally both on the same side when it comes to this bailout bill. I think i is a horrible idea & scam concocted by the Bush admin & why the Democrats are siding with Bush, against the Republicans is totally beyond me??? My attitude is "With your lack of oversight, you guys broke it.....You guys fix it!
I just hope Congress doesn't "cave" on this & I suggest we all email/telephone our Reps & tell them NOT to vote for any bailout.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: LsFarm On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:04 pm

How can the Repubs provide 'oversite' if the bills they offer to do just that are voted down by the Dems?? Come on,, the attempt to put controls on the system, and provide the 'oversight' we both agree was needed... But the Dems played polictics with this... bill S-190 is a 'Litumus Test' of sincerity of the two parties.. and the Dems fail the test..

Here is the video: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=H5tZc8oH--o

While it could do without the campaign ad at the end it is all in all pretty good, a bit fast paced at times.. The Bill that McCain was trying to get through to fix and provide oversite, which Devil and I agree on, is mentioned around 3:45 on the video.

Greg L.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Yanche On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:22 pm

Adamiscold wrote:I like the idea of raising the FDIC from 100k to 250k, was telling this to the wife the other day. It's been 28 years since they updated that amount, too many people have lost money because of the low amount of insurance the FDIC is providing with all the banks going under.
But I don't know a single person with over $100,000 that doesn't know to simply open up a second account in another bank. It's not the problem it's made out to be. In fact spreading your accounts around is a good thing. Now with the mega banks, and no incentive to open more accounts it may be very bad when "your" bank goes belly up. A decade or two ago MD had it's S&L crisis. Very few lost money but their money was frozen and the amount they could withdraw at any one time was limited. It took years to get all of it, and during that time you got no interest.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Richard S. On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:51 pm

Devil505 wrote:We'll just have to agree to disagree about who's mainly responsible for the current crisis Greg. (I blame the people who ran the government completely for most of the last 8 years & stopped any meaningful Congressional oversight,


Have you happened to watch the video posted by gaw? I'll post it again in case you missed it.



Watch that and say that again with a straight face.

(D)Rep. Maxine Waters Dem. California : ...We do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac and particularly Fannie Mae under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_Raines
On December 21, 2004 Raines accepted what he called "early retirement" [4] from his position as CEO while U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission investigators continued to investigate alleged accounting irregularities. He is accused by The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO), the regulating body of Fannie Mae, of abetting widespread accounting errors, which included the shifting of losses so senior executives, such as himself, could earn large bonuses [5].

In 2006, the OFHEO announced a suit against Raines in order to recover some or all of the $50 million in payments made to Raines based on the overstated earnings [6] initially estimated to be $9 billion but have been announced as 6.3 billion.[7].

Civil charges were filed against Raines and two other former executives by the OFHEO in which the OFHEO sought $110 million in penalties and $115 million in returned bonuses from the three accused.[8] On April 18, 2008, the government announced a settlement with Raines together with J. Timothy Howard, Fannie's former chief financial officer, and Leanne G. Spencer, Fannie's former controller. The three executives agreed to pay fines totaling about $3 million, which will be paid by Fannie's insurance policies. Raines also agreed to donate the proceeds from the sale of $1.8 million of his Fannie stock and to give up stock options. The stock options however have no value. Raines also gave up an estimated $5.3 million of "other benefits" said to be related to his pension and forgone bonuses.[9]

An editorial in The Wall Street Journal called it a "paltry settlement" which allowed Raines and the other two executives to "keep the bulk of their riches." [10] In 2003 alone, Raines's compensation was over $20 million.[11]

A statement issued by Raines said of the consent order, "is consistent with my acceptance of accountability as the leader of Fannie Mae and with my strong denial of the allegations made against me by OFHEO."[12]

In a settlement with OFHEO and the Securities and Exchange Commission, Fannie paid a record $400 million civil fine. Fannie, which is the largest American financier and guarantor of home mortgages, also agreed to make changes in its corporate culture and accounting procedures and ways of managing risk. [13]

In June 2008 The Wall Street Journal reported that Franklin Raines was one of several public officials who received below market rates loans at Countrywide Financial because the corporation considered the officeholders "FOA's"--"Friends of Angelo" (Countrywide Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo). He received loans for over $3 million while CEO of Fannie Mae.


It should be noted the Mr. Raines has been associated with Barack Obama.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:31 pm

We are not going to change each other's minds here so I'll just repeat my argument from an earlier post & be willing to wait & see who the American voter blames for all this on 11/4.

Finger point, "cherry- pick" videos & complain all you want, the fact remains that Republicans have owned the White House for the last 8 years & controlled our Congress for 12 of the last 14 years & yet some of you are trying to "sell" the current crisis as being equally shared blame by all of us, or worse....somehow the fault of the party not in power? The American people don't buy that BS by over a 2 to 1 margin. It wasn't Democrats who have been screaming FREE MARKET & gave their rich corporate buddies free reign, or prevented legitimate & sensible Congressional oversight for the last 8 years.........& it wasn't the Eskimos....It was you Republicans!

Let's just leave the debate at this: We'll all see which party gains or loses seats in Congress on 11/4......That's the only true test to see who the American people blame for this mess. I'm so sure the Republicans are going to be soundly defeated (in Congress) that I re-state my willingness to bet a little coal on it to anyone who wants to join the bet. :D ( The Presidential race has to many variables this year, to act as a reliable bellwether of who the voters blame... ...age, race, sex, etc)
Last edited by Devil505 on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Cyber36 On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:57 pm

As Mickey from the Rocky movies used to say, "yous Americans gotta keep givin till it hoits"
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