House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: spc On: Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:56 pm

Dave Ramsey's 3 step plan:
"Years of bad decisions and stupid mistakes have created an economic nightmare in this country, but $700 billion in new debt is not the answer. As a tax-paying American citizen, I will not support any congressperson who votes to implement such a policy. Instead, I submit the following three steps:

Common Sense Plan.

I. INSURANCE

A. Insure the subprime bonds/mortgages with an underlying FHA-type insurance. Government-insured and backed loans would have an instant market all over the world, creating immediate and needed liquidity.

B. In order for a company to accept the government-backed insurance, they must do two things:

1. Rewrite any mortgage that is more than three months delinquent to a 6% fixed-rate mortgage.
a. Roll all back payments with no late fees or legal costs into the balance. This brings homeowners current and allows them a chance to keep their homes.
b. Cancel all prepayment penalties to encourage refinancing or the sale of the property to pay off the bad loan. In the event of foreclosure or short sale, the borrower will not be held liable for any deficit balance. FHA does this now, and that encourages mortgage companies to go the extra mile while
working with the borrower—again limiting foreclosures and ruined lives.

2. Cancel ALL golden parachutes of EXISTING and FUTURE CEOs and executive team members as long as the company holds these government-insured bonds/mortgages. This keeps underperforming executives from being paid when they don’t do their jobs.

C. This backstop will cost less than $50 billion—a small fraction of the current proposal.

II. MARK TO MARKET

A. Remove mark to market accounting rules for two years on only subprime Tier III bonds/mortgages. This keeps companies from being forced to artificially mark down bonds/mortgages below the value of the underlying mortgages and real estate.

B. This move creates patience in the market and has an immediate stabilizing effect on failing and ailing banks—and it costs the taxpayer nothing.

III. CAPITAL GAINS TAX

A. Remove the capital gains tax completely. Investors will flood the real estate and stock market in search of tax-free profits, creating tremendous—and immediate—liquidity in the markets. Again, this costs the taxpayer nothing.

B. This move will be seen as a lightning rod politically because many will say it is helping the rich. The truth is the rich will benefit, but it will be their money that stimulates the economy. This will enable all Americans to have more stable jobs and retirement investments that go up instead of down. This is not a time for envy, and it’s not a time for politics. It’s time for all of us, as Americans, to
stand up, speak out, and fix this mess."

http://www.daveramsey.com/media/pdf/the ... se_fix.pdf

If you like the plan send it to your senators and representatives.

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_i ... rs_cfm.cfm
http://clerk.house.gov/member_info/index.html
spc
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: pvolcko On: Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:45 pm

I only have two problems with that proposal:

1) Zero cap gains: This will cause a lot of people to get back into the stock and housing market. This will just create another bubble. I'm for reducing cap gains and corporate taxes, but not eliminating them. Maybe cut each in half and see what that does. I'd love to see us get to the point that corp and cap gains tax are zero, but making it so in an instant seems rash to my way of thinking.

2) Golden parachutes: Much of these packages are based on stock options, can't really revoke them, only prevent more from being given out. Many are also based on employment contracts that can not simply be "canceled". To the extent bonus pay, bogus performance pay, etc. can be canceled for existing management, fine. However, I do not believe it should apply to new management. If we do not allow performance based incentives and multi-year contracts with big payoffs at the end for good work then the good managers will not get involved in these struggling companies and we'll simply be creating an environment for our best business minds to stick to investments or to head overseas to help other companies without these restrictions get into the black once again. What this item really has in mind is creating a culture of accountability and honesty in assessing performance and compensation for that performance. This is best accomplished with independent audits and risk assessments, tax regimes that don't punish salary income (thus encouraging more options and other cap gains taxable performance compensation), and perhaps some new regs that increase shareholder and employee visibility for management employment terms and compensation packages.
pvolcko
 

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: coalmeister On: Wed Oct 01, 2008 10:52 pm

Those good for nothing Republicans wasting our time on stuff like this...

<dead link removed>

I never heard a democrat response to this video ...hello hello... Is there a democrat/liberal out there??? The silence is deafening :shh: :shh: :shh: :oops: :oops:

...
Last edited by Richard S. on Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <dead link removed>
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold


Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:18 am

coalmeister wrote:I never heard a democrat response to this video ...hello hello... Is there a democrat/liberal out there??? The silence is deafening :shh: :shh: :shh: :oops: :oops: :oops:


You never will hear a specific response to that video either. Why?......Because, speaking as a liberal, I am not about to waste my time watching excerpts that attempt to prove a point that is just absurd. To try to pin the current economic problems on the shoulders of the party that has been out of power all these years & hold the party In Power blameless is absurd & not worth wasting one's time to watch the "proof" that will actually "prove" nothing.
If I had unlimited time, inclination & wanted to prove any absurd point at all, I'm sure I could find hours & hours of videos, articles, etc to back up my assertion.

Example: If I were to tell you that I had proof that the Earth was going to stop spinning on its axis tomorrow at 7:03AM & asked you to watch & respond to a video "proving" my assertion, how much effort would you give to to watching & responding to it?....NONE...Because you know the premise is so silly that it is not worth your efforts to refute it.

Similarly, to allege the party that has had the Presidency for the last 8 years, The Congress for 12 of the last 14 years is somehow NOT to blame for the current economic crisis but, instead the evil, powerless Democrats ARE to blame is just so silly that no one is going to take that argument seriously, or waste their time watching videos that try to prove it. The American people don't buy it either by over a 2 to 1 margin. We all know who has the most culpability in this by refusing to oversee their buddies in the business sector.
(obviously, that is just my opinion,....... just as it's your opinion that GW Bush & The Republicans are the innocent victims of the evil, Godless Democrats.) :P
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: pvolcko On: Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:35 pm

Devil, you have more time than practically everyone else on this board, by your own admission. Your post count is testament to this fact. You claiming you don't have enough time to provide some commensurate counter evidence to Republican/Bush blame on this mess is laughable. The plain fact is that you have not run across it on any of the many sources of information you peruse. All you've got is generatlities: Bush was in charge! Republican's had majorities! Republicans push deregulation!

You've been presented with documentary evidence showing repeated Republican attempts to change the regulatory regime of Fannie, Freddie, and the practice of subprime lending generally, the very core of the crisis we face today. Additionally you've been presented matching evidence of democrat efforts to enact the bad policy, to enforce the bad policy, to support community groups legally badgering local lenders into making bad financial decisions, to defend the high level purpotrators and institutions and regulations at the core of this...

Why the hell am I bothering. You aren't going to listen. You aren't going to engage rationally. You aren't going to "waste your time". I might as well stop wasting mine.

I'll throw you a bone. One claim that immediately comes to mind showing Bush willingness to go along with this as it was happening (and there are counter examples as have been provided) is his repeated proclamations of "raising minority home ownership to record levels" over the years. This level of home ownership was achieved due to the subprime loans, the horrible regulatory policies in place these past 16+ years, and the massive shift to home buying after the recession due to low Fed rates. Have you ever once mentioned this? It is low hanging fruit which you could have used to make your point just a little bit more rationally. But you didn't. Instead you trade in partisan invective and hatred.
pvolcko
 

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:04 pm

I try to ignore politics and maybe I'm being a Palin... I mean, out of my league... but..... somehow, President Bush spending more than twice the money than ALL the presidents before him COMBINED, has nothing to do with this mess?


http://www.cedarcomm.com/~stevelm1/usdebt.htm
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.


And now he wants to spend 800ish billion when a 50billion dollar insurance policy would do the job? It seems the only thing that needs to be done is assure the buyers of mortgages that they will be worth what they paid. We don't need to buy them all, we just have to insure their worth. And what's with the other monies being tossed in? Wool? What's that all about?
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:53 am

After all the addons to this bill I'm hoping the house will once again turn this bill down. But my fear is that it wont :no1:
Adamiscold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Chubby Sr. Old School

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:00 am

Devil505 wrote:You never will hear a specific response to that video either. Why?......Because, speaking as a liberal, I am not about to waste my time watching excerpts that attempt to prove a point that is just absurd.


The full 7 1/2 hours:

<dead link removed>
Last edited by Richard S. on Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <dead link removed>
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: coalmeister On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:20 pm

Devil505 wrote:
coalmeister wrote:I never heard a democrat response to this video ...hello hello... Is there a democrat/liberal out there??? The silence is deafening :shh: :shh: :shh: :oops: :oops: :oops:


You never will hear a specific response to that video either. Why?......Because, speaking as a liberal, I am not about to waste my time watching excerpts that attempt to prove a point that is just absurd. To try to pin the current economic problems on the shoulders of the party that has been out of power all these years & hold the party In Power blameless is absurd & not worth wasting one's time to watch the "proof" that will actually "prove" nothing.
If I had unlimited time, inclination & wanted to prove any absurd point at all, I'm sure I could find hours & hours of videos, articles, etc to back up my assertion.

Example: If I were to tell you that I had proof that the Earth was going to stop spinning on its axis tomorrow at 7:03AM & asked you to watch & respond to a video "proving" my assertion, how much effort would you give to to watching & responding to it?....NONE...Because you know the premise is so silly that it is not worth your efforts to refute it.

Similarly, to allege the party that has had the Presidency for the last 8 years, The Congress for 12 of the last 14 years is somehow NOT to blame for the current economic crisis but, instead the evil, powerless Democrats ARE to blame is just so silly that no one is going to take that argument seriously, or waste their time watching videos that try to prove it. The American people don't buy it either by over a 2 to 1 margin. We all know who has the most culpability in this by refusing to oversee their buddies in the business sector.
(obviously, that is just my opinion,....... just as it's your opinion that GW Bush & The Republicans are the innocent victims of the evil, Godless Democrats.) :P



I've never said GW and the Republicans are blameless, but yes, statistically speaking, most atheists are democrat.

This was not just "a video", this is an actual record of congressional testimony on the roots of this whole mess. If you could find the time/courage to actually watch it, you would see that the legislators trying to stop this train wreck had an "R" behind their name, and those that were pushing for it to continue hands off had a "D". I can't make this stuff up :P
Why didn't the "R's" stop it? Because they were threatened with charges of racism, standing in the way of home ownership for the poor and down trodden.

This should not come as a surprise to you, it dovetails nicely with the whole wealth distribution liberal democrat philosophy . You should stand up and take possession, cry victory, for this very democrat core ideal. :partyhat: :clap: :cheers:
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: Devil505 On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:28 pm

coalmeister wrote:You should stand up and take possession, cry victory, for this very democrat core ideal. :partyhat: :clap: :cheers:



Taking A Break
Devil505
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: TLC-2000

Re: House Votes Down Bailout Bill!

PostBy: coalmeister On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:31 pm

"about6410.html"


You are a man of your word :up:
coalmeister
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska 140 Furnace -sold
Stove/Furnace Model: Harmon VF3000 -sold