EFM on a Generator

cArNaGe · Post by **cArNaGe** » Sun. Oct. 05, 2008 8:21 am

My power company will install meter based transfer switch for $800. I know its expensive compared to the $250ish price of the normal ones. But you wouldn't have to touch anything in your box.

Claverack is pleased to offer members
a safe, affordable alternative: a meter-
based transfer switch that we will install.

claverack’s engineering depart-
ment will be displaying the Transconnect
transfer switch, which is manufactured by
Electro Industries. The cost of the 30-amp,
utility-installed transfer switch is $800

I guess if you paid an electrician for his labor and cost of the transfer switch, I might not be that much more expensive.

sterling40man · Post by **sterling40man** » Sun. Oct. 05, 2008 10:17 am

Get a transfer switch. It's worth the extra money. That's what I did. I have an 8.5k generator hooked up to a 30 amp, 10 circuit, transfer switch. I have my water pump, oil boiler, bathroom, 2 bedrooms, living room, kitchen, freezer, and 1 downstairs light hooked up.

Total cost w/ generator and hook-up was $1,200. My coal boiler will be hooked up with the oil boiler on the same circuit. My electrician said that this will be fine.

Having standby power is great, especially where I live. The winters are very long and cold. Just this past winter the whole town was out of power for nearly 3 hours. I placed a call to the power company and was told that it could be out for 24-48 hours.

It was quite cold out. I stepped out into the garage, wheeled the generator out back, hooked up the cord, and then started it. I went back indoors, moved 1 switch and VIOLA!!!

One of my friends drove by and called me on his cell phone. He asked if we were the only ones who paid their electric bill!!

It's very hard to put a price on piece of mind.

buickanddeere · Post by **buickanddeere** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 3:01 am

e.alleg wrote:Here is how I know most cheap people do it: in your electric panel install a 20 or 30 amp 2 pole circuit breaker. Run a length of 12/4 or 10/4 wire outside the house to a weatherproof outlet. Now you have a 220v welder hookup outside your house. You can add a 110v weatherproof outlet if you wish for running your electric chainsaw. Make a 220v 4 wire waterproof extension cord with 2 male ends, make sure one end matches up to the generator's 220v outlet and the other end matches your weatherproof outlet. When the power goes out, SHUT OFF THE MAIN BREAKER. This is critical, before you do anything shut off the main breaker. If you forget you can kill a line worker or back feed to your neighbors. Don't forget, stick a note on your generator do something just don't forget no matter what to shut off the main breaker. Now all you have to do is fire up the generator, outside of course, plug in the extension cord and run your house as normal. If you have a small 3,000 watt unit then plan on conserving energy but it will run everything you need in an emergency. The EFM draws less than 1,000 watts I would imagine it draws about 400 but Stoker man could let us know for sure. The other more expensive way to do it is buy a transfer switch. They are about $400 and it basically makes sure the main breaker is turned off before back feeding the panel. You need a transfer switch if you have an automatic standby generator, with a portable I really don't know if there is any code requiring it or not. I think back feeding a panel is much safer than running extension cords through the house. NEVER HOOK UP YOUR GENERATOR TO A WALL OUTLET! You could be back feeding 220v and 30 amps through a wire that is rated for 110v/10 amps and it isn't fused so you could have a fire in the wall very easily

Wrong, wrong and wrong.

I'm a licensed electrician and work for a Power Utility. Trust me, if you walk into the shop and start spouting such crap as this. You will have to run very fast or get seriously hurt.
You apparently are cheap and have no clue of the dangers & liability. Talk to your home insurance company, local utility and electrical inspector too and see what they think of such a jackleg

connection. There must be reasons for so much opposition to such a "cob job"

.
I could go on for pages on the dangers but to those outside the trade it's just so much jargon.The eyes glaze over and the listener just nods their head pretending to understand or care. It's almost impossible to explain to the layman the difference between a neutral and ground conductor. Let alone back feeds,ground loops,elevated grounding system voltages etc.
Knock it off with trying to kill people

. For less than the price of a couple of oversize rims and tires for your ATV or truck. You can have a proper transfer switch.

009to090 · Post by **009to090** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 7:19 am

Ya gotta use a xfer switch. Theres no need for a expensive Whole-House xfer switch if you only have a 5000 - 8000 watt generater. I got a 16 circuit, 60 AMP switch from Murray that was only $60. It acts as a sub-panel, until the generater is required.
YOU HAVE TO USE A XFER SWITCH IF YOUR RUNNING POWER INTO ANY HOUSE CIRCUIT!
If your using extension cords from your genny, to run your refridg etc, no need for xfer switch.

CoalHeat · Post by **CoalHeat** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 8:04 am

If you are going to feed power from a portable generator through the wiring in your house you need to have a manual transfer switch. The circuits powered by the generator have to be completely isolated. I haven't installed one yet and still run extension cords. Last Friday we were out for 6 hours. The power is usually restored just when I finish running the cords everywhere.

http://www.grainger.com/product/4YZ69

The National Electrical Code (NFPA 70, Article 702.6) mandates that a transfer switch be installed with all standby power systems, including portable generators.

Post by **coaledsweat** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 8:58 am

buickanddeere wrote: Wrong, wrong and wrong.
I'm a licensed electrician and work for a Power Utility.

I have heard that with some designs of generators the neutral should be transferred and in some cases not (sine wave maybe?).
Could you embellish on that for those of us with inquiring minds. I think I read it on a forum (pretty sure this one) somewhere and was a little shocked (if that is the right word here

) that in some cases could backfeed power to the lineman.

Poconoeagle · Post by **Poconoeagle** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:08 am

The exit signs in most commercial stores use two sets of bulbs to illuminate the word EXIT. During normal operation the 110v is a 20 bulb RED led! when there is a power faliure it switches to a battery back up 12 v auto type bulb to illuminate the exit. I found a few of these signs in the dumpster where they were remodling for the countless family dollar stores going in around the mountain and I disected the two 110v 4" long bright red led's out of them. At the main breaker box, I wired the very bright red led to the feed side of the main breaker and secured it to the side of the box. This not only gives a nice lite to the area around the box it also indicates when the power company is giving me the shaft!

I used bell wire to run a circut from that same feed to the other red led in a subtle area of the side porch, so as to indicate to me when its time to shut off the generator and turn the main breaker back on.
I used a 30 amp service disconect with slow blow cartridge fuses as the generator input to the house and from it I fed the range and clothes dryer with 6ga feeds so as to hit the house with generator juice on both sides of the square d QO box. Big red majic marker instructions on the main box as well as the generator box tell to clothes the main first....ect...

I don't buy the netural / ground issue as a valid problem to be concerned with if things are followed correctly.

CoalHeat · Post by **CoalHeat** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:29 am

I have heard that with some designs of generators the neutral should be transferred and in some cases not (sine wave maybe?).

Without doing any research I'm guessing that not isolating the neutral can cause power to be produced on the positive side by induction, which would be increased by the transformer on the pole (the step down transformer works in reverse and becomes a step-up), in turn feeding into the grid. Or maybe not...

Poconoeagle · Post by **Poconoeagle** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:36 am

I can't imagine there can be an induction voltage transfered thru an open circut if there is a valid ground rod bonded to the box...

CoalHeat · Post by **CoalHeat** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:39 am

Poconoeagle wrote:I can't imagine there can be an induction voltage transfered thru an open circut if there is a valid ground rod bonded to the box...

I was thinking about that as well, I need someone smarter to explain it to me!

If you make an extension cord with two male ends, TAG IT ON BOTH ENDS!

Freddy, Freddy, Freddy....The line from the generator should be connected at the house using one of there...

The only end of the cord with prongs will be the end that connects to the generator!

Poconoeagle · Post by **Poconoeagle** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:45 am

If people are capable of using common sense and follow instructions .......

CoalHeat · Post by **CoalHeat** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:47 am

common sense and follow instructions

There's the answer!

We all know there is a lack of both.

BTW I had to lie on my side on the desk to view your photos......

Poconoeagle · Post by **Poconoeagle** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:49 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:
common sense and follow instructions
There's the answer!

We all know there is a lack of both.

BTW I had to lie on my side on the desk to view your photos......

The silly new i-phone ..... darn gadgets are causing contortioninsim now!!!

CoalHeat · Post by **CoalHeat** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:51 am

I just realized I could have just turned my monitor on it's side instead.

Poconoeagle · Post by **Poconoeagle** » Sun. Aug. 23, 2009 9:52 am

Wood'nCoal wrote:I just realized I could have just turned my monitor on it's side instead.

duh!! must be that Blonde grecian formula sinking in......

EFM on a Generator

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