Plumbing and Wiring Help Needed
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The new boiler is in at the dealer. I am going to pick it up tomorrow. Didn't think I was going to get it before the snow flew. Ordered it in June, asked about the lead time, guy said we aren't back at all on these, I'm expecting them in next week. Yeah RIGHT!!! At least I have it now.
Now for my dilema. The new boiler is going in the garage which is at the opposite end of the house from where the oil furnace is now. I am currently running 2 loops of 1 1/4" black iron pipe feeding cast iron radiators. I have tied in to the loop nearest the garage. See picture below. I feel I need to run both circulator pumps at once to distibute the water all through the house. Does this seem like a correct assumption? This is a hand fired furnace that is only going to run the circulator when the temp in the boiler reaches a set point. Also, how do I wire the circulator at the oil furace to still function if the coal fire goes out and the thermostat calls for heat?
I hope I am explaining myself well enough. Pardon the crude drawing. This is a great site. Thanks.
Jeff
Now for my dilema. The new boiler is going in the garage which is at the opposite end of the house from where the oil furnace is now. I am currently running 2 loops of 1 1/4" black iron pipe feeding cast iron radiators. I have tied in to the loop nearest the garage. See picture below. I feel I need to run both circulator pumps at once to distibute the water all through the house. Does this seem like a correct assumption? This is a hand fired furnace that is only going to run the circulator when the temp in the boiler reaches a set point. Also, how do I wire the circulator at the oil furace to still function if the coal fire goes out and the thermostat calls for heat?
I hope I am explaining myself well enough. Pardon the crude drawing. This is a great site. Thanks.
Jeff
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- Cap
- Member
- Posts: 1603
- Joined: Fri. Dec. 02, 2005 10:36 pm
- Location: Lehigh Twp, PA
- Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman SF 250, domestic hot water loop, heat accumulator
- Coal Size/Type: Nut and Stove
- Other Heating: Heat Pumps
Relay? Oil burner triggers coil in relay, sends 120vac to secondary circulator. This is how I'd be thinking.how do I wire the circulator at the oil furace to still function if the coal fire goes out and the thermostat calls for heat
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Yes, it is a monoflow system. Also, I got a DHW coil in the new coal boiler. Should I put a bypass loop onthe coal boiler? Should the circulator pump be after the loop to try to keep more heat in the boiler for the DHW?
Is there a DHW coil in your old boiler?
Well to start with you're going to have to tie in the feed of the new boiler to the feed of the old boiler and the same with the returns.You just can't connect to the" loop" like in your pics.
The water in the system HAS to travel in the same direction as before.It seems like from your pics that you have a split loop mono-flo system.
The mono-flo tees have a restrictor in them and when installed on the return pipe from the radiators, thruogh veturi effect, suck the water back to the loop thus sucking hot water from the "loop" on the feed side.
I'll have to know a few more things like does the old boiler have a flow valve on the feed?
Well to start with you're going to have to tie in the feed of the new boiler to the feed of the old boiler and the same with the returns.You just can't connect to the" loop" like in your pics.
The water in the system HAS to travel in the same direction as before.It seems like from your pics that you have a split loop mono-flo system.
The mono-flo tees have a restrictor in them and when installed on the return pipe from the radiators, thruogh veturi effect, suck the water back to the loop thus sucking hot water from the "loop" on the feed side.
I'll have to know a few more things like does the old boiler have a flow valve on the feed?
- SMITTY
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- Joined: Sun. Dec. 11, 2005 12:43 pm
- Location: West-Central Mass
- Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520 Highboy
- Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
- Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler
Yeah -- maybe if you put one of those little thermostats (forgot what they're called) on the stove to trigger a relay, which would isolate the circulator from the oil furnace when the coal unit is hot, then when the coal unit cools down, it closes the relay & connects the circulator to the oil furnace again.Cap wrote:Relay? Oil burner triggers coil in relay, sends 120vac to secondary circulator. This is how I'd be thinking.how do I wire the circulator at the oil furace to still function if the coal fire goes out and the thermostat calls for heat
You'd need 2 relays -- one to connect/isolate the furnace & one to connect/isolate the coal unit.
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Yes, there is a DHW coil in the oil boiler. As far as the flow valve, are you talking about a flow control valve to prevent themosiphon? If so, the oil boiler does have one of those on the feed side.
Isn't my water traveling in the same direction as before with the way I have it tied in? I don't have a good understanding of how this truly works. I just assumed if I pumped the water through the system in the same direction it is going now and ran the circulator at the oil boiler that it would push it through the entire system.
Isn't my water traveling in the same direction as before with the way I have it tied in? I don't have a good understanding of how this truly works. I just assumed if I pumped the water through the system in the same direction it is going now and ran the circulator at the oil boiler that it would push it through the entire system.
The water in the loop closest to the coal boiler is traveling in the same direction as before but not in the loop on the right side of your pic.If you hook it up like in your pics the water will go counter clockwise in the whole loop and as you can see in your pics the left loop goes counter clockwise and the right loop goes clockwise.
You will need to connect the feed from your coal boiler to the pipe between the flow valve on the old boiler and the tee where the mono-flo system splits
The return on the coal boiler has to be connected to the return on the old boiler between the circulator on the old boiler and the tee that brings the two loops together.
DON
You will need to connect the feed from your coal boiler to the pipe between the flow valve on the old boiler and the tee where the mono-flo system splits
The return on the coal boiler has to be connected to the return on the old boiler between the circulator on the old boiler and the tee that brings the two loops together.
DON
Also no need for a bypass loop on your oil boiler(old boiler)
DON
One more thing.I would strongly suggest not to use ball valves in a mono-flo system,use full size gate valves.Ball valves restrict flow more than gate valves and the key to a mono-flo system is FLOW.
DON
One more thing.I would strongly suggest not to use ball valves in a mono-flo system,use full size gate valves.Ball valves restrict flow more than gate valves and the key to a mono-flo system is FLOW.
One more thing,try to run your feed and return lines from the coal boiler to the oil boiler as level as possible or at least with a
slight pitch up to the oil boiler.Mono-flo systems are very sensitive to air that gets locked in the system.
DON
slight pitch up to the oil boiler.Mono-flo systems are very sensitive to air that gets locked in the system.
DON
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The bypass loop already exists at the oil boiler. Do I need to eliminate it or put a shut off valve in it so when I am running on coal (as much as possible) I can keep the water from flowing through the bypass? Also do I need a bypass at the coal boiler to control my heat in the boiler for my DHW?
Is the bypass loop on the boiler because it's a fairly new replacement(does the piping on the bypass loop look newer that the rest of the system)?
I wouldn't put a bypass loop on the coal boiler,But some will debate me on that.
DON
I wouldn't put a bypass loop on the coal boiler,But some will debate me on that.
DON
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Yes, I had a new oil boiler put in less than 10 years ago. Back in the days of 80 cent a gallon fuel.
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I was thinking I should be able to do it with one relay. Do they make a relay that you can control 1 power out (to my circulating pump at the oil boiler) with 2 signal wires (one from the aquastat on the coal boiler telling both circulating pumps to run and one from the triple aquastat on the oil boiler telling the oil boiler circulating pump to run)?Yeah -- maybe if you put one of those little thermostats (forgot what they're called) on the stove to trigger a relay, which would isolate the circulator from the oil furnace when the coal unit is hot, then when the coal unit cools down, it closes the relay & connects the circulator to the oil furnace again.
You'd need 2 relays -- one to connect/isolate the furnace & one to connect/isolate the coal unit.
They put that in because they were worried about thermal shock with the new boiler.That loop slows down the mono-flo system.Do you find the systems performance with the new boiler to work well? In other words when you turn up the thermostst do the radiators heat up quickly? I suspect they do with a 1 1/4" line feeding 2-1" mono-flo loops.I'm just guessing on the piping size of the loops.
DON
DON