Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Anderson

Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Anderson

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:20 pm

Might you explain how the grate thermocouple works? Is that something that might be purchased and used on a different brand of boiler? Like... an Axeman Anderson? I came veryyyyy close to buying a AHS 130, as a matter of fact I talked one of my friends into buying one. He got the thermo couple upgrade.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: mozz On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 8:25 pm

Fred, yours has the Anthrastat right? I think all AA130's have that. I am taking it they are the same thing, or do the same sort of job in a way. When (i should't say this but i am a spy) i was down at the Axeman Anderson building picking up my parts, i was waiting in the office. As the guy was looking up my order, i peered over the counter and was looking at a handful of orders for Anthrastats and calibration receipts. Maybe they do go out of whack somewhat and that is why the AHS uses a slightly different setup. When i first got my unit running, i thought, boy, could this unit really use some computer control and various updates, maybe a project for the future. But, it runs fine as it is. It's like driving a older car with a carburetor, manual transmission, 4 wheel drum brakes, etc.etc. They often do their job very well, keep up the maintenance and learn how it works and you won't have any problems. On the other hand, i often thought if the AA130 had separated the fan drive and the auger drive it might be a little different running. But, often less moving parts, or less parts altogether often make a better unit. Maybe not the most efficient but rather trustworthy. I used to work on a radar at Tobyhanna army depot, it was from the 70's, still used today, had a range of 300 miles and i myself had to test the transmitter section up to 3 megawatts into a dummy load. When i asked a few people why do they still use this old radar? I was told, because it works.
mozz
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 1982 AA-130 Steam

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:21 pm

Yaaa, I'm sure the AA will work just fine. I think the AHS control is just a bit less work... you don't have to adjust it for summer use. Then again.... maybe a new anthratstat is $75 and a new AHS $500.... who knows? Simple IS good.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Bob On: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:02 am

The thermocouple and the anthrastat have the same function--to turn ashing on/off based on the temperature of the ash. Jeff at AHS told me that AHS moved away from the anthrastat because of reliability and resultant warranty issues. Both need to be adjusted for summer/winter. The AHS system is electronic while my understanding is that the anthrastat is electromechanical.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: PatrickAHS On: Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:00 pm

The Thermal Ash Monitor works by measuring the temperature of the ash and telling the grate when to move. It is an electronic system comprised of the thermocouple and a Fuji controller. It is adjustable, and most folks using it in the summer find the need for some small adjustment.
PatrickAHS
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alternate Heating Systems LLC

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Freddy On: Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:07 pm

PatrickAHS wrote: It is adjustable, and most folks using it in the summer find the need for some small adjustment.


Ohhhhhhh, I had it in my head that it needed no adjustments, that it "knew" some how. Thanks for the info!
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: PatrickAHS On: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:47 pm

Really all the "adjustment" amounts to is dropping the temp on the controller ten degrees or so.
PatrickAHS
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alternate Heating Systems LLC

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Blackdiamonddoug On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:13 pm

Hi Freddy
A set point adjustment made to a PID controller that changes the state of a contactor.
Very easy to do.
But the more parts and wire you add ,give your 1940 AA 130 more way to fail.
Simplicity is alway better.

BDD
Blackdiamonddoug
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axemen 260 rebuilt by Matt
Stove/Furnace Model: stoker AA 260

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Yanche On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:23 pm

The ASH thermocouple ash controller doesn't have a contactor. It uses a PID controller that drives a solid state relay which in turn controls the ash grate motor directly.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Freddy On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:36 pm

Heyyyy, I think the AA's are 1945, not 1940! And they made some good improvements over the years. They changed how the water coil attaches and they, ahhhh, well, I guess that's about it. :) I do think I'll leave mine stock. If it aint busted, don't fix it.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:26 am

Freddy

Axeman - Aderson was formed in 1944
AHS 1979
EFM 1922
Keystoker 1946
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:44 am

Cool. I didn't realize that Keystoker was such an old company.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Bob On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:30 am

coal berner wrote:Freddy

Axeman - Aderson was formed in 1944
AHS 1979
EFM 1922
Keystoker 1946


I think Eshland might have been formed in 1979. After Eshland closed an employee of Eshland, Jeff, opened AHS and brough with him some of the Eshland designs. I think AHS started up sometime in the 90s.

My understanding of the history of boilers of the coal gun design is that the basic design originated with research done by Penn State and was first sold commercially by AA. A modified AA design was sold by Eshland. A modified Eshland design is now sold by AHS. Perhaps Patrick can correct this history if it is incorrect and fill in some additional details.
Bob
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Anthracite

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: PatrickAHS On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:08 pm

Yanche wrote:The ASH thermocouple ash controller doesn't have a contactor. It uses a PID controller that drives a solid state relay which in turn controls the ash grate motor directly.


CORRECT
PatrickAHS
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alternate Heating Systems LLC

Re: Thermocouple,Is that something that mightwork on Axeman Ande

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:20 pm

I've tried to confirm the Penn State connection with the various library researchers at Penn State. No luck. Some also have suggested that Bethlehem Steel built the prototype. If the design was a state funded design is important. Almost always such designs are public free designs or available for modest licensing fees. I'd appreciate any information along these lines. There were at least four different manufactures of similar design, A-A, Eshland, AHS and one used boiler that Matthaus has.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea