Constitution Poll

What's your take on the U.S. Constitution?

Poll ended at Sun Nov 30, 2008 4:47 am

Bush, McCain are protectors of the Constitution.
8
24%
Obama May be a Protector of the Constitution in the near future.
6
18%
I don't understand the Constitution.
0
No votes
I don't understand the Constitution, and I don't care.
0
No votes
I am a Constitutionalist, and I feel that too many amendments have been added since the Bill Of Rights was written.
11
33%
I am a Constitutionalist.
8
24%
I think we need a new constitution, we need "change".
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 33

Constitution Poll

PostBy: SAU On: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:47 am

Since the Clinton years, when I was in the military, I have been concerned with the path our country has taken. Bush II has offered me no consolation whatsoever. I was born in 1968, and feel as though there is a very perceivable difference in our freedoms since my childhood years. Over the course of the last four years I have studied our history, going as far as seeking out antique history books printed in the 1800's in order to see how U.S. history is being changed by text book publishers. It isn't so much that they change things as it is that they leave out important parts of our history. Anyway, what's your take?
SAU
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: billw On: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:29 am

I agree things have changed quite a bit since I was a kid. I graduated high school in 1970. I think the biggest difference was back then you were allowed to fail and had to take responsibility for your actions. The federal government has turned into an overbearing mother that insists you run your life according to their rules. I was a republican when they were in the minority. They said they wanted a smaller, more efficient government. When they took power they turned out to be nothing but more of the same. They pushed big government programs down our throats. The only difference between them and the democrats is one is tax and spend, the other borrow and spend. The latter is even more irresponsible than the former. We are probably going to be like Great Britain, a former shadow of itself.
billw
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: kootch88 On: Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:52 am

Anytime you go through an airport you realize how much abuse the constitution has taken. Bill has many good points regarding the change in society. I am a little younger and grew up in the days of open drug and alcohol use. Nearly everyone used back then, but Monday morning you had better pass your exam because being stoned or tripping all weekend was not a valid excuse to fail. Now, if you fail because you also use drugs, you have a disease. That may be a true, but I go to work everyday and never miss unless I am attending my own funeral and so do a great deal of people. It means we take responsibility for our lives. More Americans need to do that. I don't have a problem with social programs, what I do have a problem with is the abuse of these programs and the dependency on these programs.

The Executive office has garnered too much power in the last eight years and abused our ability for proper oversight of the office. Congress, for better or worse, needs to assert itself again.
kootch88
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: SAU On: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:17 pm

Anytime you go through an airport you realize how much abuse the constitution has taken


I have only flown once since I found out that I was on the watch list and that was for work. I gave the TSA a hard time by quoting the forth amendment, they think it is just fine to be part of a police state. Being on the watch list infuriated me because I am essentially being tagged as a dangerous felon, and I'm assuming this is because someone has the same name as mine. I've never been arrested, and served in Desert Shield/storm yet I am branded by the federal government as a terrorist? I call BS.

This link tells you how to find out if you are on the list.

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjan08/TSA.html

Remember the Soup Nazi on Seinfeld?
No first amendment for you!
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/CNN_r ... _0716.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/weblogs/ ... t-or-else/

The Bill Of Rights is listed in order of importance, if the first is being attacked can the second be far behind?
SAU
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: kootch88 On: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:24 pm

Try getting through security in a wheelchair!! I always ask them if they want me to go to the bathroom before or while they stick their finger up my butt!! They do not find me amusing at all.
kootch88
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: SAU On: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:39 pm

Phew, five votes for Obama letting us be free. Well coal burners, here is Obama's plan for you.

Obama's Carbon Ultimatum

The coming offer you won't be able to refuse.

Liberals pretend that only President Bush is preventing the U.S. from adopting some global warming "solution." But occasionally their mask slips. As Barack Obama's energy adviser has now made clear, the would-be President intends to blackmail -- or rather, greenmail -- Congress into falling in line with his climate agenda. Mr. Grumet said that come January the Environmental Protection Agency "would initiate those rulemakings" that classify carbon as a dangerous pollutant under current clean air laws. That move would impose new regulation and taxes across the entire economy,


http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 2003548473

Yep taxes taken at the source of the heat which keeps your family alive is real Constitutional. Oh well, vote your conscience, but this guy is going to be a travesty just as Bush has been a travesty.
SAU
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings/Nordic Stove
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:13 pm

WHAT PART OF CONGRESS SHALL PASS NO LAW DON'T THEY UNDERSTAND!!!! :mad: The constitution was designed to be understood by both farmer and scholar. :geek: toothy Amendment 10 says that anything not innumerated in the bill of rights shall be sent to the states. THE CONSTITUTION WAS DESIGNED TO LIMIT GOVERNMENT NOT THE PEOPLE :nono:
Duengeon master
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: SAU On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:22 pm

Shhh, don't tell the congresscritters, McCain or Obama. With 100 views and only 20 votes I must assume that 4 out of 5 fall into the "I don't understand the Constitution, and I don't care" catagory.
SAU
 
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Stove/Furnace Model: VIGILANT II 2310/Erik Jr. HH

Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:20 am

One cannot be a constitutionalist and at the same time feel there are too many amendments to the constitition.

A constitutionalist believes that the constitution is the law of the land from the people's will. If a constitution provides for its change and, that provision is followed leading to a legitimate change, then the amendment is a valid part of the constitution without further argument from the constitutionalist.

Those voting that they are "constitutionalists and at the same time feel there are too many amendments since the bill of rights" should be reclassified to the "I don't understand the Constitution" category.
Last edited by mikeandgerry on Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
mikeandgerry
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:40 am

kootch88 wrote: It means we take responsibility for our lives. More Americans need to do that. I don't have a problem with social programs, what I do have a problem with is the abuse of these programs and the dependency on these programs.

The Executive office has garnered too much power in the last eight years and abused our ability for proper oversight of the office. Congress, for better or worse, needs to assert itself again.


Term limits would ensure that congress asserts itself. Today too many congressmen are looking to make a career out of their office. That lends itself to the fence straddling that mollifies the people and entrenches the rank and file while ignoring the real problems that need fixing.

As for individual self-reliance, it cannot be a sustained social value when assistance is provided to disadvantaged individuals by law. Any assistance laws must provide benefits based on quantifiable data. Judgement cannot come into play. Everyone eligible will jump on the bandwagon and never get off. This re-establishes a baseline of "disadvantage" and the threshold for benefits is then changed causing the same cycle over again, destroying the value of self-reliance.

Let charities pick up the disadvantaged. The job of government according to the constitution is to "provide for the general welfare", not the individual's welfare. This is to say: secure liberty and opportunity for all collectively, not individually. If we have to be responsible for ourselves and pick up the slack for ourselves and our neighbors directly, we will be better people individually and as a society.

What we are currently doing as a government is trying to "insure" the people from casualty. The Constitution is not a medical, life, or casualty insurance policy. The attempts to make it one using the "general welfare" clause is a usurpation of power.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: kootch88 On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:54 am

Everyone eligible will jump on the bandwagon and never get off. This re-establishes a baseline of "disadvantage" and the threshold for benefits is then changed causing the same cycle over again, destroying the value of self-reliance.


Mike, while I agree the vast majority will never get off, I know from my own personal experience and those of others I was in college with that there are many of us who have some pride drive and a desire to do more than waste our lives' away on the public dole. I received full social security benefits when I broke my back because I had worked full time since I was about 15 years old. any way, there are a lot of us who do get off the wagon.

John
kootch88
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:47 pm

mikeandgerry wrote:One cannot be a constitutionalist and at the same time feel there are too many amendments to the constitition.

A constitutionalist believes that the constitution is the law of the land from the people's will. If a constitution provides for its change and, that provision is followed leading to a legitimate change, then the amendment is a valid part of the constitution without further argument from the constitutionalist.

Those voting that they are "constitutionalists and at the same time feel there are too many amendments since the bill of rights" should be reclassified to the "I don't understand the Constitution" category.


The 17th Amendment effectively changed the USG from a representative republic to a democracy. I would say that you don't understand the original intent.

Our military training manuals used to contain the correct definitions of Democracy and Republic. The following comes from Training Manual No. 2000-25 published by the War Department, November 30, 1928.

DEMOCRACY:

* A government of the masses.
* Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
* Results in mobocracy.
* Attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights.
* Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether is be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
* Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

REPUBLIC:

* Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
* Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
* A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
* Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy.
* Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.
* Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.

The manuals containing these definitions were ordered destroyed without explanation about the same time that President Franklin D. Roosevelt made private ownership of our lawful money (US Minted Gold Coins) illegal. Shortly after the people turned in their $20 gold coins, the price was increased from $20 per ounce to $35 per ounce. Almost overnight F.D.R., the most popular president this century (elected 4 times) looted almost half of this nation's wealth, while convincing the people that it was for their own good. Many of F.D.R.'s policies were suggested by his right hand man, Harry Hopkins, who said,

"Tax and Tax, Spend and Spend, Elect and Elect, because the people are too damn dumb to know the difference".


http://www.c4cg.org/republic.htm

And for those of you who think Obama will protect the Constitution.




Obama wants to take our simple, easy to understand Constitution and Bill Of Rights and turn it into the 855 page monstrosity linked below so that he can better control you.

http://www.unizar.es/euroconstitucion/library/constitution_29.10.04/declarations_EN.pdf

Happily giving up our rights. :x

Here's a link to 2000-25 if you would like a taste of how much the U.S. has changed.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/tm_2000-25.html
SAU
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: kootch88 On: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:02 pm

Didn't we just give up our rights in the name of Homeland Security? We walked like sheep into allowing wire tapping, intrusive searches etc. We allowed a huge consolidation of power in the executive branch that went nearly unchallenged for 6 years.
kootch88
 
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:07 pm

Couldn't agree with you more, which is why I at least try to make an effort to show people where we are heading.

Here's is a site that actually prints news that will effect you and yours. Mainstream media is just a freak show that hates real news.

http://www.blacklistednews.com/
SAU
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Vermont Castings/Nordic Stove
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Re: Constitution Poll

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:28 pm

SAU wrote:
The 17th Amendment effectively changed the USG from a representative republic to a democracy. I would say that you don't understand the original intent.



Sorry. There is no logic to your argument.

Amendment 17 - Senators Elected by Popular Vote. Ratified 4/8/1913. History

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.



By the definition of your "military manual" the US is still a republic. (Since when is the military a constitutional expert?)


I would agree that BO wants to change all that. The wrong way, I might add; through executive order, liberal interpretation from the bench, intimidation, and outright coercion.

My point is simply this: The Constitution provides two methods of amendment. One method originates in the congress and is ratified by the states. The other originates in state constitutional conventions and is ratified by the states (by passing the US congress). No matter how the amendment is made it remains the law of the people, by the people, for the people until changed by the people. As such no Constitutionalist can "complain" or feel disenfranchised from the law.
mikeandgerry
 
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