Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

PostBy: Mark (PA) On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:11 pm

I don't have an AHS and I'm not trying to highjack a thread so let me apologize up front!

I am trying to get my thoughts around running my stoker year around. it is a 1953 EFM high boy.

Does anyone know at what point you can justify running the coal vs letting your electric hot water heat your water?

I dump my coil into my hot water tank sort of like a holding tank. if the temp in there goes below 120 or so the electric will heat it.

But I was just not sure if anyone did the cost analysis! Summer is a long way off for now but I like to plan ahead. I bought this baby in April last year just to get it up and running for the fall.
Mark (PA)
 
Stove/Furnace Make: 1953 EFM SF-520 High Boy
Stove/Furnace Model: Fitzgibbon Boiler

Re: Life Expectancy

PostBy: steamup On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:31 pm

I don't know about the EFM but I would go to another forum and ask that question.

I looked at the test data for the AA130 and found that it needs about 12 lb a day of coal for standby losses and 7 lb for DHW per the test data. PatrickAHS stated that their unit needs 1/2 to 1 lb of coal per hour. Less than 19 to 20 lbs a day of coal to maintain heat is not probable.

The question is what your actual DHW usage is and the cost of electric vs minimum coal consumption?

I figured for my family of 4 and the cost of propane, It would be nealy even money. The solution would be a mass storage tank to heat up a large quatity of water on the weekend and then shut down the boiler and coast all week.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Life Expectancy

PostBy: coal berner On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:19 pm

Mark (PA) wrote:I don't have an AHS and I'm not trying to highjack a thread so let me apologize up front!

I am trying to get my thoughts around running my stoker year around. it is a 1953 EFM high boy.

Does anyone know at what point you can justify running the coal vs letting your electric hot water heat your water?

I dump my coil into my hot water tank sort of like a holding tank. if the temp in there goes below 120 or so the electric will heat it.

But I was just not sure if anyone did the cost analysis! Summer is a long way off for now but I like to plan ahead. I bought this baby in April last year just to get it up and running for the fall.

In the Summer time if you set it to 3 teeth which is 7.5 lbs a hr and set your timer to run 2 min. every hr that will be 2 hr
a day of burning coal which will be 15lbs a day to heat you water aqaustat set at 140f low or you can set it to 2 teeth
which is 5lbs a hr at 2 min every hr 2 hrs a day of burn time will be 10lbs a day yo could drop it to one tooth which is 2.5

lbs a hr at 2min every hr which is 2 hr a day of burning you would be at 5 lbs a day but i don;t think you will have very hot water the BTU's would be to low I am running 3 teeth now with out any problems I will be testing 2 teeth in the summer time to see how it goes right now 3 teeth is keeping the house at 73f and the water very hot 140f to 170f high limit is
180f have not hit that yet The T stat hits the set temp first but like I always say what works for one my not work for
other's And I am Sorry For High jacking this thread can't help myself sometimes :oops: Sorry again
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520


Re: Life Expectancy

PostBy: cArNaGe On: Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:19 pm

Just a response to Mark and others. I recently took the propane water heater out of my basement (unhooked for 5 years) The sticker on the side said it would cost $224/year to run it. Put that was @ .60 gallon for propane. Guess I'll use the Heater as scrap.
cArNaGe
 

Re: Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

PostBy: coal berner On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:22 am

OK Say you are Paying 170 a ton for coal Energy Content 13.100 BTU per lb Efficiency 70%
Electricity per KWh would have to be 3.00 Energy Content 3.412 BTU / KWh 100%
Propane would need to be .70 a gal Energy Content 91.000 BTU / gal 85%
# 2 Fuel oil .95 fer gal Energy Content 139.400 BTU / gal 80%
Natural gas .75 a therm 100.000 BTU / therm 85%
Corn 2.30 for a 50lb bag 6.970 BTU / lb 75%
Wood pellets a ton 115.00 8.200 BTU / lb 80%
Firewood Per cord 125.00 24 x 10 ^ 6 BTU/cord 60%
coal berner
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1986 Electric Furnace Man 520 DF
Stove/Furnace Make: Electric Furnace Man
Stove/Furnace Model: DF520

Re: Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

PostBy: steamup On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:31 am

The base cost of the energy is less than 1/2 of the equation. The key is how much energy do you use for standby losses and to keep the fire lit. The report on the AA130 calculated of the 19 lbs/day of coal, 12 lbs of coal was used for the fire and 7 lbs for DHW. Also, does the waste heat go to keep a wet basement dry or does it add load to you air conditioner? Many factors must be considered.

I do not disput that coal may be cheaper in the right application.
steamup
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130, Keystoker K-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: HS Tarm 502 Wood/Coal/Oil
Coal Size/Type: pea, buck, rice

Re: Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

PostBy: billw On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:50 am

Next summer I'm putting in an indirect water heater. When deregulation happens in PA the electric companies are looking at jacking up the rates 35%. I've also already installed an additional pump and flo check to accomodate heating my pool so my unit will be on all summer anyway.

So far I think my biggest mistake with my new heating system is keeping the oil unit. I left it on the opposite side of the house about 30 feet from the coal unit. That's a lot of extra water to keep hot. After my daughter's wedding at the end of 09 I'm considering pulling that thing out. I can always get one of my sons or my future son in law to take care of the unit when we go away. The increase in efficiency is worth the extra work.
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: GOODBYE OIL COMPANY

Re: Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

PostBy: Yanche On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:12 pm

I'd keep the oil boiler. Who knows what the future will bring. I'd re-plumb the system into a true primary secondary system. That keeps the oil boiler as a backup system but keeps it cold by not circulating coal boiler water through it. Remember the next buyer of your house may not want coal heat. If the oil boiler is still there, turning it on is just a flick of the switch.

Maryland went through the residential de-regulation months ago. Dramatic price increase, the political bickering still continues. Attempts to re-regulate abound but it's difficult to put the Gennie back in the bottle.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

PostBy: billw On: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:23 pm

Yanche you're from MD maybe you know the answer to this. Right now my daughter is teaching in Baltimore County. She rents an apartment. A couple of months ago she was given a 250 credit from BG&E because of some settlement between the utility and the state. I asked my daughter what happened. She had no clue other than she was 250 richer. Did the state sue the utility?
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: GOODBYE OIL COMPANY

Re: Coal vs Electric Costs for Domestic Hot Water

PostBy: Yanche On: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:12 am

Yes, but it didn't get to court. There was an out of court settlement in which the utility, BG&E gave credits to existing customers. What was in dispute was the value of the generating plants when the first deregulation law was passed. The utility was allowed to recover capital asset cost built into the future rate structure. In effect the customers paid for the generating plants. State claimed the amount was too large because the plants are now worth a lot more.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea