Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: joespond On: Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:03 pm

I've got a different question.

Does anybody have or know anything about the harman Elite Insert. I have been considering trying an insert in my fireplace, instead of running the MKII in the basement full blast.

Bill.
joespond
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark II

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:40 pm

I know a little. Harman insert will keep you very warm. The bigger the room it is in the better she really throws out the heat even at idle. I have mine running now and the doors and windows are open but the weather is supposed to change quick here so I have it burning. If you measure right and it fits in your fireplace it is very easy to install. I removed the damper from my fireplace and pushed a 5ft. piece of oval ss flex up the chimney. Next I filled in the open area around the flex pipe in the smoke chamber with insulation and I really stuffed it tight, (just like the manual says to). In the back of the insert is where the fumes exhaust you will see a metal plate there or should that redirects the gases, push in from the inside and it will move so you can reach up and grab the flex pipe and make sure it is seated correctly before you push the stove all the way back into position, mine came with a ss rod to push through the top of the stove ring and the ss flex pipe and keep it in place while you move the stove into position. As you push it back start to put the surround on but loosely so you have some give as you push it back. I know this sounds like a lot of work but I did this all myself and I took my time, still only took me an hour or so to do the whole thing.
If you have any questions just ask I'll be glad to help as much as I can, they are very easy to run and keep up no manometer to install either.
Hope this helps.
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:23 pm

The problem with inserts is that a lot of the stove body is buried in the masonry fireplace opening,, the fireplace absorbs the heat from the insert, instead of radiating the heat into the room.. So you may not get as much room heat from the same amount of coal in a freestanding stove..

If you have room, put the Mark II in front of the fireplace on a fireproof hearth, and see if you like the heat in this location..

Don't forget that no matter how careful you are, you will get some coal dust and ashes from the stove.. do you want that in the living room??

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Visit Hitzer Stoves

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: BM-80 On: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:12 pm

As far as radiating heat into the room goes , I don't know about the Harmon but The Hitzer has a steel double jacket and two 100 cfm fans to blow hot air into the room. It works VERY well
BM-80
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 983 insert

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:27 pm

LsFarm I hate to disagree but I really feel that the masonry fireplace helps put the heat where it belongs....... back in the room. If the Harman insert was anymore efficient I would have to break out the picture window. I only use about 15lbs of coal right now a day I have the draft regulator turned just 3/4 of a turn out and it just idles for 24 hours before I get to it again. After a good shake down I might get about half the ash pan full of ashes and thats a good shake down at best. This house has no insulation in it at all and no special windows just double hung and storm windows. This is a rancher and I use a fan at the far end of the hallway to blow air from the far end of the house to the living room. As far as coal dust and ashes, if you open the ash door and let the stove charge up a bit then shake down the ash goes up the chimney and I guess I'm just very careful with the coal when I load it. (last year was my first year, I used 1 1/2 tons for the season. I used zero oil. My savings were about 2,100 bucks for the first year and the wife had the window open in the bedroom all winter.)
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:21 am

If the masonry fireplace is warm at all, that warmth would be in the room, not the fireplace..

Not every fireplace has an outside exposure, some are fully inside the envelope of the house and insulation,, in this case the heat absorbed by the masonry is not lost heat, it eventually radiates to the interior of the house.. But most fireplaces have an exterior exposure, and the outside of the fireplace is outdoors. In this case, the heat lost to the masonry is being at least partially lost to the outdoors..

The stove manufacturers are doing a good job of recovering as much of the heat off the back of the stove as possible, but there still is heat lost to the masonry in the fireplace.. A free standing stove only loses the heat that goes up the chimney flue..

I'm not saying that anyone should sell their insert and replace it with a freestanding stove. Often the reasons for an insert are space limitations and appearance, many homes just can't use a freestanding stove as well as an insert..

But the physics can't be denied.. if you bury the back 80% of a stove in a cold masonry fireplace, even with double walls and fans, you won't get as much heat as from the same stove setting out in the room and used as a freestanding stove.

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: BM-80 On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:24 pm

Well, for me, I got an insert because I already had a fireplace which, as we all know, is useless for heating. The room is not huge, so for me an insert is the way to go.
As far as efficiency, on one hand I suppose it CAN'T be as efficient (law of physics can't be denied..) but on the other hand I wonder if its that much different. I mean, radiant heat only goes until it reaches a solid object and then it turns into heat. A good example of this is a heat shield below a free standing stove or a heat shield above a stove/below a mantle. In both cases the air space obstacle to the transfer of heat.
So, is it possible that the radiant heat of the stove (inside wall) radiates until it hits the jacket (outside wall) and then turns into heat, which is then "carried" into the room by the airstream produced by the fan? (the question mark is because I don't know. Furthermore, there is another airspace between the outer jacket and the masonry.

One final thought about inserts: Yes it IS dirty. Dust, especially, is an issue. I'm probably going to try one of the small, portable, hand held vacuums.
BM-80
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 983 insert

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: joespond On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:55 pm

My fireplace is indoors. It's actually in an inner corner of the living room. The room has a cathedral ceiling with a couple of ceiling fans. I'm just not sure I'm ready to hand over the $2470.00. Thats what I was quoted for a base unit. I'm sure they're nice though. How do you control the draft in those, since it doesn't seem like you could have a baro or Manual damper since the pipe is behind and going up into the smoke chamber?

Also, does anybody know about how much power the harman blower motors use? Like the one in the MKII.

Are the blowers in the Elite insert too loud to sit and watch TV in the same room?

Bill.
joespond
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark II

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: jeromemsn On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:17 pm

I don't know where you are located but the Lancaster new era newspaper has one for 600 bucks. You control the draft with a single knob on the ash door and it works great. Your right no baro or damper in the exhaust pipe at the rear. the fan I have is the one that came from factory and yes I can watch t.v. with it on. I have heard of some people putting a rheostat on them to adjust the fan.
jeromemsn
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker 90 dvc
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman elite fireplace insert

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:52 pm

NOW for only $600, I would give it a try.. The price of a new insert is why I recommended trying your Mark as a freestanding stove in front of the fireplace to figure out if you really wanted to spend >$2500 without knowing if it would be satisfactory for you.

With only $600 invested, if you don't like it,, you could easily sell it for your costs.. And of course there is the supply problem with new stoves from Harman,, there are none available unless you find one in a dealer's stock.

If that insert is in reasonable shape,, someone on the forum should buy it..

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: BM-80 On: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:54 am

As far as my insert (Hitzer 983) is concerned, the blowers are a little loud. Yes, I can watch TV in the room while they're going, but I DO wish they were quieter....

By the way, do any of you guys (Harmon insert guys) ever turn the blowers off? And if so, are you comfortable doing so or do you feel you may cause damage do to excessive heat?
BM-80
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 983 insert

Re: Harman Magnafire Series Coal Stove Elite Insert

PostBy: joespond On: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:57 pm

Thanks for the line on the Elite insert, but I'm in N.E. Vermont.....kinda far. It would be like finding a needle in a haystack to get a used one around here.

The left wing fruitcakes probably won't allow coal burning much longer anyway, so I better sit tight. We'll all be heating our homes with peace, love, understanding, and happy thoughts.

Better to head south perhaps.
joespond
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark II

Visit Hitzer Stoves