Coal Tax

Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: Adamiscold On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:14 am

I think both of them are going to be trying to lower green house gasses and improve the air quality and there is no way it can be done without our prices going up. Everybody now who buys things "green" spend more on it then on the "non green" items, it's just fact. Biomass heating oil cost's about $.60 more a gallon then #2 home heating oil does and people do pay it because it's better for the environment. Look at the extra cost to have the electric company invest in "green" technologies, people pay that extra 10-15 bucks a month to help lower gas emissions.

Prices will go up no matter what the companies do to improve green house gasses and we will get stuck paying the bill either directly through our tax's or by the government funding them.


One of my complaints with McCain's idea of pushing for clean coal is how does he plan on getting the companies here to not be selling it to places overseas? If I recall correctly China buys a good amount of our coal and didn't they just buy a company here that produces it? I would think that the only way he would get the coal to stay here would be for the government to do some type of subsidy program like they do for farmers which is going to cost us billions and raise the price for all coal across the board. There really is no way of us to improve our air without it effecting our wallets.
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:18 am

Well put Adam & I agree. No matter who wins, coal will go up a bit in price.
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: Duengeon master On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:26 am

This is just one more reason to vote for hope and change! :roll: :no1: :what: :annoyed: :nono: :stfu: :out:
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: mjwood0 On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:45 am

Staying out of argument over candidates, I guess I'm a bit confused.

Why do you all burn coal? I'm guessing your motives are just like mine -- cheaper energy without the reliance on foreign oil. This makes perfect sense.

Fuel oil cost me about $2200 / year the year I stopped using it. Last year, coal cost me around $300 - $350 for the year. Currently, coal is about 1/7th the price of fuel oil for me. Are you all saying you'd switch back to fuel oil if the price of coal went up to only half the cost of heating oil? 3/4 the price?

Personally, I'd still favor coal even if it cost the same as fuel oil simply for the lack of reliance on foreign oil.

Essentially, we've all found a cheap way to heat our homes. We were smart, did the research and saved ourselves a bunch of money. I highly doubt the price of coal will more than double and guess what -- I'm thinking we'll still be saving a pretty big chunk of change.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm willing it spend a bit more on coal each year if it will help come up with newer, cleaner energy sources since in the long run, this will be more beneficial to our environment.
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: Ed.A On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:58 am

If Barry wasn't so against Nuc-power we wouldn't really be in bad shape down the road a piece.
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:45 pm

Ed.A wrote:If Barry wasn't so against self reliance, we wouldn't really be in bad shape down the road a piece.


Ed.A wrote:If Barry wasn't so against free markets, we wouldn't really be in bad shape down the road a piece.


Ed.A wrote:If Barry wasn't so against individual sovereignty, we wouldn't really be in bad shape down the road a piece.


Ed.A wrote:If Barry wasn't so against stupidity being painful, we wouldn't really be in bad shape down the road a piece.


Ed.A wrote:If Barry wasn't so against The Constitution, we wouldn't really be in bad shape down the road a piece.


Fixed. :D
SAU
 
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:11 pm

mjwood0 wrote:Staying out of argument over candidates, I guess I'm a bit confused.

Why do you all burn coal? I'm guessing your motives are just like mine -- cheaper energy without the reliance on foreign oil. This makes perfect sense.


A.) Self reliance
B.) Cheaper
C.) Easy Access to coal
D.)May be the only fuel I can get as the empire collapses. All empires fail and the #1 sign of falling empires is a debauched currency.

Why do some people feel as though it is OK to place a tax on everything, particularly a federal tax? What about needs? Sure, it is easy enough to tax wants and desires but taxing a persons needs is damn near satanic in my line of thinking. People need food, water, shelter, and depending on the climate, heat. Without any of those items you DIE. This country went 130 years before an income tax was implemented and we did just fine taxing the extravagances of imported goods. Who gets hurt the most when you tax needs? The elderly, and the people who can least afford the tax. The Federal income tax started out at 1% back in 1913 but today it runs 20% to 40%. Do you really think that the proposed tax will just be a little bit? The Whiskey Rebellion happened because the fed was trying to tax peoples ability to live, and the American Revolution happened because King George not only was taxing the colonies to their detriment but also taking away their Rights as British citizens. You currently have a government that spends billions overseas trying to open markets for our manufacturing base, which no longer exists. Every dollar the lunatics spend is borrowed and you still wonder why some people are mad about the federal governments actions and their undying willingness to tax us to death. You may as well admit that, you hate freedom, you hate taking responsibility for yourself, and you want to let the government provide for you on the backs of your fellow citizens.

The philosophy of freedom flash. Sure to give some of you an epiphany if you watch it.
Last edited by Richard S. on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: <removed dead link>
SAU
 
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: mjwood0 On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:04 pm

I cannot say I disagree that overly high taxes on necessities hurt those who need them the most. However, lets take your idea and run with it.

What do people need?

Theoretically, I need food, water, shelter. I'll include heat here too for the sake of argument since we're on a coal forum which is used for heat. Given my fear of a collapse of our national infrastructure, I purchased 15 acres when I decided to buy a home. Why? I can hunt for meat, I could graze a couple cattle if necessary and grow the rest of my needs in a large garden. I also have a stream on my land so I theoretically have both food and water covered. For that matter, those with enough trees could build shelter and heat by burning wood -- much like they did in the revolutionary war.

So by that same analogy, I could say that those who live in apartments or don't own acreage are simply unprepared and therefore, as you say, "...hate freedom, you hate taking responsibility for yourself and you want to let the government provide for you on the backs of your fellow citizens."

We don't live in such a society anymore. We have the ability to import varieties of different goods which are not available to us otherwise. We have the diverse culture that makes the United States what it is.

Before you get up in arms, realize that I too wish our income tax was much lower. I too hate the idea that my tax dollars go to those who are unemployed (by choice) or refuse to work. Bottom line, I want to have the ability to work for a better life and keep the earnings. But we are a "United" states, so we had better understand that all of our decisions affect others and that bettering the country for the good of everyone isn't a sin.
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: kootch88 On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:37 pm

I also want lots of bombs, large standing armies, the best R&D, missiles etc. I also want the best roads possible, and I do not want a stitch of snow on them during the winter months and I want my Social Security when I hit 65, not 70 or 72 and I want my healthcare taken care of for free. I deserve it, I worked hard all my life.

I do not want to pay school taxes, corporate income tax, social security tax, gasoline tax, personal income tax, beer tax, coal tax or any other kind of tax. I am an American, and we left England over taxes. Anyone who wants my money is looking to get a bullet in the head. I could care less about the folks who can not afford health coverage, who get laid off, vets who need medical care, immigrants (stay where you came from) and anyone else because this is America, where Survival of the Fittest rules ( beside Intelligent Design) Vets after their brains are scrambled in Iraq or anyone else except for me and people like me who work daily ( especially if they are white). If you don't work daily, the hell with you. This is my view of the world, and if I have to pay one cent more for coal because it is taxed, I will start a rebellion.

Sound like anyone we know here?
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: Blackdiamonddoug On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:07 pm

I hope that people in Penn.react badly to a coal tax.
We need your vote to keep Obarma out the white house
BDD
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: JohnMck On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:13 pm

It's not just about coal. It's about our way of life.

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said. "That's not leadership. That's not going to happen," he added." -- Barack Obama

Somehow, working hard to produce the greatest standard of living the world has ever known, is wrong. I do not want to live in a world where government has the right to control what fuel I use, or how much. it's nobodies damn business, especially " other countries ". This man will bankrupt this country in the name of Global Warming. This is a theory. It's never been proven.
i still think the whole thing is more about control, than anything else.
JohnMck
 

Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: kootch88 On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:24 pm

This is a theory. It's never been proven.
i still think the whole thing is more about control, than anything else.


Since we know all scientists are corrupt and want to see the downfall of the USA, what proof do you need, the irreversible climate change or the end result, cataclysm? What will prove something to people, in general, who have no scientific aptitude whatsoever (I am no scientist, so making it understandable to me is difficult too, and I have taken 1 couple of physics courses in college)? The only answer is scientists are corrupt and have no clue what they are talking about. Maybe we should depend on the Joe the Plumber type like one of my customers. We were discussing Creationism the other day and his argument against evolution was "I've never seen a monkey turn into a man". So if that is it, scientists are a whole bunch of corrupt bastards, and that means the majority of them because by a large majority they buy into the global warming accelerated by green house emissions.
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:49 pm

kootch88 wrote:I also want lots of bombs, large standing armies, the best R&D, missiles etc. I also want the best roads possible, and I do not want a stitch of snow on them during the winter months and I want my Social Security when I hit 65, not 70 or 72 and I want my healthcare taken care of for free. I deserve it, I worked hard all my life.


If you are directing that at me you are way out of context because I'm no friend to imperialism. I will never receive SS and I'm betting you won't either, because it is a pyramid system that will fail, and fail soon.

kootch88 wrote:I do not want to pay school taxes, corporate income tax, social security tax, gasoline tax, personal income tax, beer tax, coal tax or any other kind of tax.


I have a problem with paying federal taxes that are then redistributed without representation throughout the country. I don't like the federal government attaching strings to the money that the schools receive back, that is where gay education comes from. SS is insolvent. Gas tax no longer funds our roads, Personal income tax was left to the states and while you may claim sophistry income is not the same as wages, but that's a deep subject that most would not want to follow. Last time I checked beer is not a necessity. The coal tax that Obama is promoting will be another boondoggle just as grains to gas is a boondoggle. If there is a need or desire for these products a free market does not need federal subsidies to fund them. Hope you enjoy the higher price of grain since the government got into the business of fermenting it all for gasoline.



kootch88 wrote: I am an American, and we left England over taxes. Anyone who wants my money is looking to get a bullet in the head. I could care less about the folks who can not afford health coverage, who get laid off, vets who need medical care, immigrants (stay where you came from) and anyone else because this is America, where Survival of the Fittest rules ( beside Intelligent Design) Vets after their brains are scrambled in Iraq or anyone else except for me and people like me who work daily ( especially if they are white). If you don't work daily, the hell with you. This is my view of the world, and if I have to pay one cent more for coal because it is taxed, I will start a rebellion.

Sound like anyone we know here?


You are misrepresenting history. Do you really believe that they left England over taxes? The health care industry has been wrecked by government interference since the 60's, you know back when doctors actually made house calls. Lay offs will occur because no one can trust a market that is being interfered with, and that is propped up by a debt based currency which is on it's way to the incinerator. I am a vet and I agree that vets need much better care, it's the two party system that treats them like so much rubbish by sending them into undeclared wars which ravage the home county with debt, insecurity, and military industrial complex fraud. Immigrants are fine so long as the morally bankrupt social system is torn down. Part of the high cost of medicine is because the people who actually pay also have to cover the deadbeats. You're right, I don't want to cover you and yours, I have enough trouble covering my own.

mjwood0 wrote: Bottom line, I want to have the ability to work for a better life and keep the earnings. But we are a "United" states, so we had better understand that all of our decisions affect others and that bettering the country for the good of everyone isn't a sin.


How is taxing the coal business into bankruptcy bettering the country?

Eisenhower, the general who won the Atlantic Theater during WWII explains the military industrial complex.

SAU
 
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:54 pm

Adamiscold wrote:I think both of them are going to be trying to lower green house gasses and improve the air quality and there is no way it can be done without our prices going up.


Yes they both have a cap and trade policy but that's where the similarity ends. Obama's plan calls for auctioning the credits off to the power companies which amounts to a tax that will be passed onto the consumer. McCains plan calls for the credits to be allotted and the auctioning slowly phased in over time to allow business to adjust.
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Re: Coal Tax

PostBy: SAU On: Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:01 pm

Scientist lose funding when they don't have the proper answers. That has been proven time and again.

Evidence of sunspot involvement in climate change compelling
Published: 31 Oct 08 - 0:00
Over the last few years, the evidence that sunspots on our sun are directly related to climate change on earth has been steadily increasing.

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/articl ... _id=145646


Alabama cold snap ties low temperature record
October 31, 2008 · 2 Comments

Tuscaloosa News | Oct 29, 2008

By Jamon Smith

TUSCALOOSA | The big chill that Tuscaloosa experienced Tuesday tied the record for the lowest Oct. 28 temperature ever recorded in the city.

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008 ... re-record/

Arctic blast brings London earliest snow for 70 years
October 31, 2008 · No Comments

White night: the Millennium Bridge with its temporary trail of iced footprints last night

The Arctic has been experiencing very cold temperatures this year.

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2008 ... -70-years/

Lorne Gunter: Thirty years of warmer temperatures go poof
Posted: October 20, 2008, 10:26 AM by Kelly McParland
Lorne Gunter, Ful Comment

In early September, I began noticing a string of news stories about scientists rejecting the orthodoxy on global warming. Actually, it was more like a string of guest columns and long letters to the editor since it is hard for skeptical scientists to get published in the cabal of climate journals now controlled by the Great Sanhedrin of the environmental movement.


http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2008/10/20/lorne-gunter-thirty-years-of-warmer-temperatures-go-poof.aspx
This link is broken, either the page no longer exists or there is some other issue like a typo.
SAU
 
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