The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: envisage On: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:29 am

That Magic Heat sounds great! I will probably have trouble installing it because the run from my stove to the chimney is only a few feet, and it is most horizontal, not vertical. Can it be installed in the horizontal plane? I would not mine getting more heat in the basement. We got a minor snow shower here in PA last night, so this morning I sprinkled some of my coal ash on the ground outside. I will let you know how well it works, and how much of it ends up back in the house. I thing I realize is if I am going to use it that I will need to do some coal sifting before hand. Are you having any problems with your center burning nicely, but the outer circle being mostly ash? I have been happening to me more lately. It isn't bad, and I have always been able to get the new coal to ignite, but I wonder if you have a nice even bed of burning?
envisage
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Werner Foundry 350a
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400, Fire Boss Wood/Coal Hyrbrid
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat, Pea, Chestnut and Stove

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:00 am

Yes, you can install the heat reclaimer horizontally. The manual doesn't recommend it but if you have to, you have to. I think to install vertically you need 22.5" from the stove flue to the height of the thimble. The HR is 14.5" high and two elbows add about 7". I was going to install vertically but ended up with just enough height to go horizontal.

Regarding how my stove burns, I would say it is performing well and generally produces an even burn. It could be due to the large lumps, of good quality coal. If the quality went down I believe my burning experience would drastically change. I notice in the morning after a good 8 hour burn I need to work the hot coal around a little bit to even things up and get the ash from around the sides. I think it was last Friday that I let it burn a little more than 10 hours and had to throw a little kindling on it and some small coal to get it going good. With cold days/nights over the weekend I tended the stove more and burned more to keep temps between 350 - 450, sometimes up to 550 for a bit. I did not load it full in the mornings this weekend but chucked between 3 to 10 pounds in lumps into the firebox after the inital 1/2 load then just tended it every 2, 3 or 4 hours until late at night. The fire stays very hot and the coal lumps start to crack and flame up immediately (a nice roar of flames!!!!) The intense heat sort of cracks the lumps apart (they expand slightly) into a large mass of red hot coals that stay intact with some gaps I gently prod them in order to keep things even. Usually by sundown I have built up a full load that is red hot. Then I just maintain it until bedtime. Anyway, with the projects I have going its fun to just keep up with how the stove is performing. Hey, tomorrow we warm up before the rains set in and you guys will probably get snow by Wednesday. Anyway, with warmer temps coming I'll install the new boot tomorrow!!!

Now, about spreading that ash around....I bet you end up mopping the kitchen floor like I have to do when the wife points out all the soot we tracked in. I washed the porches off today and the cellar floor. Everything is now clean as a whistle, at least until morning. HA! Let me know how it turns out with the ash on the sidewalks.
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: rockwood On: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:22 pm

dangit wrote:Yes, you can install the heat reclaimer horizontally. The manual doesn't recommend it but if you have to, you have to. I think to install vertically you need 22.5" from the stove flue to the height of the thimble. The HR is 14.5" high and two elbows add about 7". I was going to install vertically but ended up with just enough height to go horizontal.


Do you have problems with soot/ash buildup with the reclaimer horizontal?
I thought about using one but my stove pipe goes horizontal straight from the stove to the wall and I thought the rod you pull to clean off the tubes would just leave the soot laying on the bottom of the reclaimer clogging it up as apposed to letting it fall back into the stove if it were vertical.
Do you have to take it apart to clean it frequently?
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)


Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:41 am

Wow the outside temps were up today....it is 66 as I write this and the winds are picking up....the storm is bearing down on us.

I was able to install the new oval boot today. As usual I had to make a few changes and it took a lot longer than it should have but it is holding good and solid with a small fire started so far. Guess I won't load the stove up too much tonight with with the temps being so high.

rockwood, the rod you pull is attached to a template, so to speak, that scapes the tubes when you pull it. After taking the pipes apart and inspecting the interior of the HR the tubes had a very thin layer of soot mixed with flyash covering them so I have to report the 'template' does not scrape the tubes completly clean. I guess it was doing OK since it was putting out a lot of heat the night before taking it apart and by all indications could have made it through the whole season. Your main concern would be the, will soot and flyash building up cause a problem? But, I think it would take quite a long time of burning to cause any problem for you in a horizontal install. You should plan on taking the pipes apart after a month or so and seeing how much has collected. I would not think it will cause you a problem based on my experience today. I had the shop vac handy, with all the filters in place and sucked it out. There was only a slight buildup in the elbow and a little in the bottom of the unit. I think the horizontal install will have the tubes laying horizontally too, so that means the buildup will be on the side of the HR and there is plenty of area or space to allow for a large buildup. One more point to clarify things, you are only going to be able to access it from the bottom or top pipe openings. The main unit doesn't dissasemble. So, just have a long brush handy if you want to give it a complete cleaning. Hope that answers your question, if not, re-post.
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: envisage On: Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:00 am

It has gotten so warm here since yesterday. It is already 58 degrees outside and the sun is not even up yet! The last 2 days have been brutal. With temps down in the teens it was hard to keep the house in the high 50s. I let my Warm Morning burn out last night. I figured now is a really good time to install the manual damper into the stovepipe. After that is done perhaps I will begin looking for a good price on the Magic Heat.
envisage
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Werner Foundry 350a
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400, Fire Boss Wood/Coal Hyrbrid
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat, Pea, Chestnut and Stove

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:05 pm

envisage wrote, "After that is done perhaps I will begin looking for a good price on the Magic Heat."

You won't be sorry. NorthernTool has 'em for $150 on the site -- I had mine sent to a nearby store for pickup. Hey, since the thing weighs 30 lbs it saves on shipping.

Temp swings are good when it's to the upside but those low teens and lower are brutal, especially when the wind kicks up too. We are still warm here but slightly colder air will move in tonight.
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:24 am

Just wanted to post a tip on keeping the HR tubes clean. I started leaving the rod all the way 'out' because a small buildup of soot occurs on the rod. I also use a stout paper towel (Scotts Rag-In-The-Box) or cloth to cover the rod as I work it back and forth when cleaning the tubes since a little soot does come out.
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:53 am

Just wanted to copy and POST this PM since I thought we should keep this thread going because of all the good information accumulating between a couple of guys burning coal in our Warm Morning stoves.

Hey Buddy !!!
Sent at: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:29 am
From: envisage
To: dangit

Have not heard from you in a while. I hope things are well with you and yours. I installed my manual damper about a week or so ago. What a difference! I was burning 2+ 5-gallon buckets a day. Now that is down to just over 1 5-gallon bucket. My 3 tons of coal in the basement should now last well through the winter! The firebox is much hotter and the flue temps are lower which means that more of the heat is staying inside the house where it belongs. The coal is also burning much better, more ash and less unburned pieces, although I seem to be generating more clinkers. I am not sure why. I pulled a whopper out of the bottom this morning. I took it upstairs to try burning in my Fire Boss Wood/Coal hybrid. Have you put your damper in yet? I forgot to shake down last night so my beastie went out. No biggie, I actually enjoy getting it started now. Before I fired her up again I took the time to really clean out 3 of my 4 internal flues that were clogged. Now the orange/blue ladies are flowing up through all four corners again. So pretty! It has been a while since that was the case. I will monitor things to see if that dramatically changes how she burns. I certainly hope so. If I don't hear from you before next Thursday, Merry Christmas to you and your family. God Bless !!!
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:00 am

Here is the reply I sent to envisage who is a terriffic guy and has provided me (and the rest of us with some good feedback) on how to bun coal in these Warm Morning stoves.

Re: Hey Buddy !!!
Sent at: Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:16 am
From: dangit
To: envisage

Great report on your progress installing the damper and cutting down on your load while getting more heat. I don't have a damper installed yet. I wanted to install one the same day I did the new boot but since it took so much extra time to get the boot right I did not get the damper put in.

Sounds like the best of both worlds with your damper installed. Maybe you won't need a HR after all. Although if your flue temps are at least in the 250 range you still have plenty of heat going up the pipes to make it worthwhile and send extra heat through the basement. So, now you are producing more clinkers. Hmmmm....don't have any ideas on how to stop that but it may be a small trade-off to get more heat and a better burn on less fuel. Now, did they burn in your Fire Boss? If so, are you thinking you might be making coke instead of clinkers? You know once the oxygen is reduced the likelyhood of making coke goes up. I think that's the way it works. So if they are light in weight and burned up you are making coke. Not a bad thing so long as you have a stove to burn it. I would love to have about 100 tons of 'pet coke' (petroleum coke) at about $15/ton if I had the stove to burn it. Almost no smoke or ash and NO soot. I understand it is sold on pallets of 100# bags and in a variety of small granular sizes. It burns very, very white hot.

I was able to get about 90 # of some deep mined bit coal this past Monday and it burned real good with less soot. About half of it was real fine and the rest was pretty small stuff with just a few 'nuts' up to 2" in size. No dust but very small stuff. I sifted it through 1/4" hardware cloth and put the small stuff into brown paper bags (about 5 to 6 #'s in each bag.) Tuesday evening I loaded 30 # of the fine coal (in the bags) on a small bed of hot coal. Then shoveled another 30 # of the 'nutty' coal on top of that until the firebox was about 3/4 full. I opened up the draft a liitle bit and it burned real good with orange/blue ladies shooting up all four corners. Very nice to have the corners cleaned out, yes? Burned about 12 hours. Love the way that coal burned. Less volatiles, less smoke and less soot. There were yellow and blue flames to start with but it became mostly blue flames once it stopped smoking after 40 minutes or so. I will investigate to see if there is any way to buy a few tons of that so long as it is screened to 3/4" or larger.

We also wish your family a Merry Christmas and blessings from God!!!
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: envisage On: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:50 pm

Thank you for your very kind words Dangit. I don't know about being terrific, but I am very thankful for a fellow Warm Morning stove burner like you on this forum to correspond with. The damper is definitely doing a wonderful job. The clinkers I got did not burn in the Fire Boss wood/coal hybrid upstairs, so I guess they are not coke. In any case these things were very heavy, so I thought perhaps they might burn. No such luck, and I finally had to pick them out with tongs. I have heard about how nice coke burns. It would have been nice to make/burn some. My flue temp is still well between 300 and 350, so I will probably be looking into the Magic Heat in the future. Since I will need to mount mine horizontally, do you think the weight of that beastie will be of any concern? I wonder if the stove pipe can support its weight in that orientation.

I really wish I could get my hands on some more bit. I know our stoves were really designed to burn that stuff, and I would love to play with it. I have been thinking of some way to keep the 4 internal flue clear of ash and coal pieces. Perhaps some small piece of cast iron with perforations fitted into the tops to allow the gases and flames to come through? I just don't know if it would hold up to the internal temps, but I think keeping those clear is very important to proper burning, and I don't want to shut the stove down to clean them out. In the mean time it is nice to see the blue flames in the corners again! I will keep you posted on the clinker production situation. C-ya! :-)
envisage
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Werner Foundry 350a
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400, Fire Boss Wood/Coal Hyrbrid
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat, Pea, Chestnut and Stove

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:47 pm

Yeah, those sound like clinkers according to your additional description. I was wondering if I would be producing clinkers early on but so far the bit coal I've got has burned down to a fine ash. Hey, you want some more bit to burn and I want some anthracite. Is this a classic case of 'the grass is greener on the other side of the fence' or what? HA!!! Who knows, maybe we'll get a chance to trade a little coal some day. I know you would be able to burn this bit pretty well in your stove. I picked up another 2400 #'s yesterday and this stuff burns real well too. Although my pile was running a little low I believe this last load should carry me through January.

Yeah I was concerned about the weight of the HR. For additional support I wrapped some steel wire around the screws that keep the inner housing away from the outer housing and anchored them into an exposed joist above the unit. In the horizontal position you may want to do something similar, although once you screw the pipes together it should hold the weight.

Keeping the internal flues clear of ash is important like you point out. Mine have stayed open so far but it's just a matter of time until they clog. I have been thinking about a way to do it without shutting down by using spring steel wire. The front 2 flues can be accessed from the loading door and should be easy to keep the ash clear by running the wire down the flue channel. The rear 2 are the tough ones to access and will require some more thought. Maybe come up from the bottom? Any ideas?
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: dangit On: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:40 pm

Did a shut-down on the stove as temps got just warm enough to clean out the Heat Reclaimer and pipes. The 6" pipes needed it too, about 3/8" of soot and flyash had built up. Same deal on the HR. All of the build-up was clinging to the interior surfaces so I needed to give everything a good brushing. Used a blower to get it all out and re-installed. Got a better draft and figure I may need to do it again by March. My chimney flue looked to be in good shape and not much built so far this year so I did not bother to clean it too.

The last load of coal is really burning so well. Lower volatiles and lots of blue flames afterwards. Burns a good 10 to 12 hours on a full load with plenty of hot coal still remaining. Hope all you guys in the perpetually frozen northlands are doing OK this year. See ya!
dangit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 523

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: envisage On: Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:44 pm

Glad to hear that your bit is burning well Dangit! It has been below freezing here in PA for the past week or so, but my Warm Morning has been doing its job helping to keep the house warm and toasty. Have you been able to get your damper installed into the stovepipe? I burn so much less coal because of that.
envisage
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Werner Foundry 350a
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Warm Morning 400, Fire Boss Wood/Coal Hyrbrid
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat, Pea, Chestnut and Stove

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: festus On: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:23 pm

Hi I also have a warm morning 523 which I have used for about 4 years...I put a gasket on the lower clean out door which allows me to control the air flow and I can regulate the stack temp to whatever temp I want. Usually run about 400 degrees first thing of the morning, then throttle back to around 150 degrees....These are great stoves! I live in a log home with high ceilings and it was costing me about 2500 a year to heat with LPG....I will burn about 2-3 tons of lump bit per year and I stay warm...75-77 degrees. I live in southern Indiana and coal prices range from 50 to 200 per ton. Even at 200 it is still a bargain!
festus
 
Stove/Furnace Make: warm morning
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: The care and feeding of a Warm Morning stove

PostBy: zipdog On: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:44 pm

Hey festus where are you buying your coal in southern Indiana ? I'm in east central Illinois but I would be willing to take a truck and my trailer down to get some fairly good stuff. All I can find up here is pretty poor grade coal and I only found one place that would sell to the public and I called over 20 places.
zipdog