Convert from HVAC LP to Koker Keystoker Coal Furnace

PostBy: traderfjp On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:29 am

JoeD: I love my coal stove and have never had a problem with coal dust. If you're careful when you fillup the hopper you'll be fine. The real pain is the ash which is like talcum powder. I have to empty mine every two days and then discard it. It is a chore and not something that I look forward too. That said I wold buy my stove again in a sec. I live On Long Island, in an older colonial, and my oil comsumption runs about 150-200 gallons a month from Oct-March. I use about 1400 gallons a year and at $2.20 a gallon we're talking serious dollars. Honestly, if I had your situation and my heating costs were only 1200.00 I wouldn't bother with a stove unless you're keeping the house cool and would like to make it toasty. Every 2 days I need to fill up the hopper with coal (ain't lite) and empty the ash. It's a pain but it keeps my house very warm and my oil consumption would go up 20% if I kept the house at the same temp as with the coal.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

PostBy: Complete Heat On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:38 am

Chris,

I just installed a Keystoker 90 into a sporting goods store, and it is a direct vent model. The vent blower is extremely quiet, and even with the combustion blower, convection blower and the vent blower going all at the same time the unit is still extremely quiet. It is much quieter than the Alaska stoves that we sell, and the convection blower is far more effective. If you wind up having to replace the convection blower, upgrade it to a 350 cfm model, they rock.

The pellet pipe is fine for coal, especially anthracite. Look how long regular black pipe lasts. Simpson just came out with a new pellet pipe, 1" clearance to combustibles, and no sealant needed on the joints. Plus the seams are welded, not crimped.


Mike
Complete Heat
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Axeman-Anderson
Stove/Furnace Model: AA-130/FHA

PostBy: europachris On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:50 am

Complete Heat wrote:Chris,

I just installed a Keystoker 90 into a sporting goods store, and it is a direct vent model. The vent blower is extremely quiet, and even with the combustion blower, convection blower and the vent blower going all at the same time the unit is still extremely quiet. It is much quieter than the Alaska stoves that we sell, and the convection blower is far more effective. If you wind up having to replace the convection blower, upgrade it to a 350 cfm model, they rock.

The pellet pipe is fine for coal, especially anthracite. Look how long regular black pipe lasts. Simpson just came out with a new pellet pipe, 1" clearance to combustibles, and no sealant needed on the joints. Plus the seams are welded, not crimped.
Mike


Thanks for that info, Mike! I'd imagine that with the blowers all mounted to such a heavy solid chunk of steel, that there isn't going to be much noise transmission. I do plan to replace the blowers in the near future (and I get good pricing from Grainger), but I'll fire them all up first to see what shape they are in after a good cleaning and lube.

That Simpson pellet pipe (the PelletPro) is exactly what I'm going to use. It's not cheap, but will make for an extremely clean installation, both visually and physically. No need for sealant goo, tape, etc. Just fit together and go.

Looking forward to next winter already! Don't think I'll have her installed this winter after all the cleaning, refurbing, and painting she needs. It will also be fun getting that big lump down to my basement....

Chris
europachris
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 350/Iron Fireman
Stove/Furnace Model: Custom bituminous burner


PostBy: traderfjp On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:50 am

The Keystoker was my first choice but it was too big for my home. For a basement you may want to conside this brand too.
traderfjp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing 3

PostBy: dirvine96 On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:33 am

Joe,

I personally don't see a real big benefit to you by going with the stoker. Sure I know its the Cadillac and all the stoker burners get all excited when they see one. You Need to ask yourself, what am I trying to accomplish here.

If its to save money. If your paying $1100 to heat a 2600sqft house in NY. Your already doing pretty well.

If its do not to be dependent on LP. By going to the stoker your still dependent on National Grid.

I can't see the benefit to spending that kind of money for a stoker. I think $4000 is a little light by the time all said and done. The stove alone is well over $3000 I think. A solid fuel power venter has got to be around $500. Then add the tax and its not even in the basement yet.

Consider this.

A good friend of mine was in the exact position you are in. The only difference is his home is 2200 sq ft.

He put in a Hitzer hopper fed free standing stove and a masonry chimney.

He went through 3.5 tons last winter. $700

Kept his house between 68 and 72.

Only needed to use the propane when it got down below 5 degrees. You live near me so you know we heat from Oct to April. Below 5 degree is a very small part of our heating season.

He puts in about a drywall bucket a day.

He made some some minor duct modification so he can run the fan on his furnace to move the heat a round.

He can heat without electricity

His floors are very warm



Stove cost $1200
Chimney $1000

or you can do what I did. Put a hand fed add on furnace $1500 dollars with a 1000cfm blower. But with a ranch, a free standing stove would be the way to go for me.

The hot water coil can be done with both of these.

Not being dependent on a utility was real important to me when I made my decision to burn coal.

Don't let the stoker girly men scare you away from hand fed stove. HA HA

Good luck

Don
Last edited by dirvine96 on Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
dirvine96
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer 82FA

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:50 am

Did I just feel the slap of a glove?? Did someone throw down a gauntlet?? :) :lol: ?

Us stoker types have one very nice feature: more independance. WHEN I was handfeeding my big boiler, I would arrange my days, errands, chores etc around feeding the fire.

If I goofed up, and didn't get to the fire in time, I had an hour-long ordeal to restart the fire. My firebox holds around 120-160# of coal, so getting it started, burning safely, and getting the door closed again for the night is not a small task.

Now with my 'girlie stoker' I just load in two or three buckets of rice/buckwheat coal, and empty the ash pan, If I don't get to the job for 24 hours, the worst I have is a very full ashpan. The hopper holds several days of coal. I may even automate the ashpan job with an ash-removal auger and big ash bin. I'd like 36 hour independance.

A Hitzer hopper feed model is almost a stoker, it is a gravity stoker. and these can be left alone for 24 hours and be fine. No electricty needed, although I think the stove would get very hot without the circulation fans.

For my boiler, I have to have electricity to pump the hot water to the house and shop anyway, so being off the electricy grid is not a consideration, that is what standby generators are for.

All in fun, some of us HAVE to have a stoker to be efficient

Greg L

.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: dirvine96 On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:49 pm

Hey Greg,

Just trying to get a reaction. Just stiring the pot a bit..

Don
dirvine96
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer 82FA

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:22 pm

:) :lol: :)
It worked! I had to give a response, just too tempting

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: stockingfull On: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:36 pm

dirvine96 wrote:But with a ranch, a free standing stove would be the way to go for me.


:-k I would think that the horizontal "spread" of a ranch floor plan would be the one most benefitted by a fully-ducted fan-forced rig, especially if you have a basement in which to locate it.

In the classic colonial house, you heat the main floor and the sleeping quarters naturally are warmed to a slightly lesser degree (and, in the old days, held the heat a little longer overnight). That's the way it works in mine.

But in a ranch, you need multiple sources of heat to avoid hot- and cold spots.

:evil3: And. lest we forget, all the "girlie" advantages (much longer tend intervals, keeping the fuel- and ash-handling out of the living space) of stoker furnaces are still there to tip the scales in the event of a close call.

My 2 cents, even though JoeD seems to be long gone. [-o<
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

PostBy: dirvine96 On: Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:44 am

It work really well at my bud's house. The whole basement is very warm and that heat works its way up through the floor. All the floor are nice and warm. Two things he does to help. 1-keeps the basement door open a little. 2- he has a couple of transfer duct strategically located. The heat in the space is very even. I think his stove only fires at about 80k btus. Not sure on that, but I could check. He burns nut coal and like I said about a drywall bucket a day. He also has a walk out basement, so nothing enters the living space. He really has a sweat stet up. I forgot to mention he does have a small blower on his stove. Low cfm. Just to move the heat around a little.

Don

Greg I'm surprised your the only one that bit on my girly man bit. Getting late in the season need to keep the posts moving.
dirvine96
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer 82FA

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:57 am

Yep, I'm surprised too. But the weekend is near, I bet you'll get more responces soon.

:lol: :) :lol:

Greg L

BTW, I'm away from home right now, and had to train someone to run the 'girlie-man' stoker boiler. MUCH easier training than with a hand load, with clinkers, banking, stirring, shaking etc.

Quote: just empty the ash pan, and fill the hopper. UnQuote. Sooo Simple.

,
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:15 pm

Well, that's different! I thought you were suggesting a stove on the main floor of a ranch.

IMO, what your buddy actually has is a "furnace-type" setup which, because it's in the basement, works very much like my colonial system. That is, the heat source is below the living space, it's ducted up strategically, it's assisted by a blower, and it doesn't require fuel and ash to be handled in the living space.

Now, we "girlie men" :jester: aren't crazy about having to run downstairs more than once a day to tend the heating plant. How many trips a day does your buddy have to make in the coldest weather?

And whatever happened to JoeD? :dontknow: :mrgreen:
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:24 pm

I recently purchased a stoker stove but I will not have it in operation until next winter so am I currently a "girlie man" or do I have to wait until next year to achieve the "girlie man" status. :lol:
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

PostBy: stockingfull On: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:10 pm

I infer that the universe of "girlie men" encompasses all who don't stoke coal stoves and remove ash by hand. :roll:

By that definition, I must confess to lifelong "girlie man" status. And, since I think HVAC-to-stoker, and even full stoker automation, are the way of the future, I guess I'm a radical "girlie man." :toothy4:

(And maybe the sure proof is that I'm having so much fun with these emoticons! :occasion9: )
stockingfull
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Yellow Flame
Stove/Furnace Model: W.A. 150 Stoker Furnace

PostBy: BinghamtonNY On: Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:46 pm

I'm a "Girlie Man", and at lunch I emptied my ash pan and filled up the hopper in my Magnum... That means I won't have to touch it till sunday night at the earliest... ha ha ha.... Plus I humped down 1000 pds of coal to my basement I had in bags out in my garage.. Only 10 more bags to bring down tomorrow. Fun fun fun!!! :) :)
BinghamtonNY
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman Magnum Stoker