What Kind Of State Secrets Does A President Know?

ktm rider wrote:First of all. Anyone who thinks we are alone in the universe is not only close minded but also very arrogant to think we are so special that we are the only species. There are billions of stars in our universe and billions of universes. So, just do the math. there is no way we live on the only single hunk of rock that supportds life...

I firmly believe that we are not alone in the universe. That's does not prove that we are being visited by aliens though. Due to the distances involved, I don't believe we are, but, unless they reveal themselves to us, I agree that it can't be proven one way or the other.

ktm rider wrote:I remember that there was an experiment done with three or four of the best shooters in the world and they re created the whole shooting scene and NONE of them could pull it off in the time that oswald did, especially with a bolt action rifle.

& I have seen documentaries showing that even an "average" marksman was capable of recreating Oswald's shots with the exact same, bolt-action, scoped rifle. (a 6.5x52mm Mannlicher-Carcano M91/38 bolt-action rifle) They actually preformed these test...on screen! I think one was a CBS-Walter Cronkite documentary showing that Oswald acted alone. Kennedy's parade route was not even announced in advance enough to have a conspiracy use Oswald (who had been working at The Book Depository for a while) as a shooter.
Oswald acted alone.

The same conspiracy buffs that believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy will usually believe EVERYTHING is a Secret/conspiracy!

RFK, MLK, Roswell, FDR knew about Pearl Harbor & let it happen, UFO's, Loch Ness monster, U.S. Astronauts saw aliens etc......

Wow, hadn't noticed this one pop up. A couple random comments:

Roswell, UFO's, size of the universe: I used to freak my old man with "infinity" talk when I was in college. If every one of the stars you can see on a Canadian (unpolluted) night is like our sun, and unless there's a rational explanation that how all those solar systems were formed was very different than how ours was formed, and if we know that it's even "only" as big as we can see, then there should be not only one, but an "infinite" number of planets out there like ours, even an infinite number of planets where the people sitting around have our names, etc. He used to stop me about there.

Kennedy was assassinated at 1:30 PM EST on November 22, 1963, not November 16. I was in 7th grade. And when I first was taken to Dealy Plaza in Dallas, what I found most surprising was how small it was. The book depository is nearly on top of the road there.

"Glomar Explorer": I worked for Sun Shipbuilding and Dry Dock as a student intern during the summer of 1972, and watched the "Hughes Glomar Explorer" being built there. The big deals were the heavy lift derrick and gimbal platform over the quite large "moon pool" amidship, as well as the very trick dynamic positioning system (twin screw, with 3 transverse bow thrusters and 2 stern thrusters, all to go out and mine manganese nodules off the ocean floor??? The answer was written off to the "eccentricity" of Howard Hughes. In fact, they threw me out of my little semi-private office and into a cubicle so they could paper over the windows of that office and have a "private" model of the heavy lift gimbal.

The people at Sun were never told that the sub-sea barges which formed the second half of the recovery system for the Russian sub were being built at the same time at NASSCO in San Diego. And the most ridiculous part was that, when the story got blown, the "Company" deadpanned that we'd gotten the sub, "but not the code room."

stockingfull wrote:And the most ridiculous part was that, when the story got blown, the "Company" deadpanned that we'd gotten the sub, "but not the code room."

I never bought the BS official story that 1/2 of the Russian sub broke off & wasn't recovered. We got the whole thing, imo.
Fascinating story though!!..Real life James Bond!!

Devil505 wrote:The same conspiracy buffs that believe JFK was killed by a conspiracy will usually believe EVERYTHING is a Secret/conspiracy!

RFK, MLK, Roswell, FDR knew about Pearl Harbor & let it happen, UFO's, Loch Ness monster, U.S. Astronauts saw aliens etc......

Oh come on now! Where have you been? It is all a conspiracy. Your man Obama was put into office by the New World Order to forward their agenda. He is just a puppet bought and paid for by George Soros.

I think conspiracy theories are far more interesting than the real story and some may have a bit of truth in them to keep them going. I don't loose any sleep over them but I do enjoy listening to all the angles people can come up with to explain things.

gaw wrote:I think conspiracy theories are far more interesting than the real story

If you like a nice fairy tale b4 bed I agree...I prefer non-fiction.

A little off topic. History channel has monster quest on tonight at 9 about bigfoot. They put a board with nails on it and something stepped on it. Their going to have it DNA tested. The one last night about the coal train was cool.

Bigfoot falls into the same category as State secrets. The same folks who think all the conspiracies are true probably think bigfoot is out there too. Ever listen to Coast to Coast on the radio at night? The same audience for those subjects along with remote viewing keeps them in advertising.

kootch88 wrote:Bigfoot falls into the same category as State secrets. The same folks who think all the conspiracies are true probably think bigfoot is out there too.

I agree....I think it's more of a "State of Mind" to WANT to believe things in this world are more complicated & mysterious than they really are. To me, reality is much more fascinating & unbelievable than fiction!
(if someone had written a novel with the 9/11 results in it, most people(including me) would have thought: Ridiculous!! they (terrorists) never would have succeeded!

The picture on a wall in the oval office that can't be moved of the old guy with long beard and the funny hat that seems to move when you are not looking directly at it is the head of the Ministry Of Magic.

Devil,

The state secrets you listed are the ones you know about. It's the ones you don't know about that make presidents lose sleep. There is alot more going on than you are privy to.
No, I don't think jet vapor trails are a gov't experiment. No I don't think Oswald acted alone. Yes I think there is life other than us in the universe and yes I think they have visited earth. (I know, most of you now think I'm a nut job).
Do I think the gov't had advanced knowledge of Pearl Harbor and let it happen? It's certainly very possible. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was fabricated. The USS Liberty incident was covered up and ignored. Yea, I think they are capable of it.

coalkirk wrote:Devil,

The state secrets you listed are the ones you know about. It's the ones you don't know about that make presidents lose sleep.

ALL the state secrets from the FDR/WWII era are now known due to many laws such as the Freedom of Information Act.
Most of the Eisenhower (1950's) secrets are known, other than specific encryption techniques, etc.

My point was that I doubt there are any CIA KNOWN secrets that are so dangerous to the U.S. that it would cause the incoming President to lose sleep over.(there are very real dangers Terry, but most of these are pretty well known)
IMO, the worst dangers facing this country now are the same things that have always presented the worst danger to us.........Things we don't know.

For someone like me and you who have a distrust of the government as you have expressed many times, I find it interesting that you think that all would be revealed under the Freedom of Information Act. Most recently when there was a post that Palin was encouraging acts of violence against Obama in her speeches and that people were shouting "kill him", that was refuted by the secret service. You mentioned how with your insider perspective from DEA, you saw many such misdirections. I politely disagree with you on this topic. There are many things that have gone on and continue to this day that you or your grandchildren will never know about, regardless of the Freedom of Information Act.
I could tell you how I know, but then I'd have to kill you. Remember the two men can keep a secret as long as one of them are dead thing.

coalkirk wrote:For someone like me and you who have a distrust of the government as you have expressed many times, I find it interesting that you think that all would be revealed under the Freedom of Information Act.

I agree in believing that we both have a basic distrust of government Terry.........But , in my case, it's not all government that I distrust....but mainly CERTAIN ones.

Let me explain:

While all governments will occasionally release false/inaccurate information, most will do this in an effort to protect our national security. There have been a few however, that will hide behind state secrets to hide criminal activity.
Richard Nixon was forced to resign the Presidency (in disgrace) when the so called "Smoking Gun" audio tape was forced to be released by Supreme Court ruling. This tape showed (you heard Nixon committing the crime) that Nixon tried to get the CIA to stop the FBI investigation of Watergate by falsely claiming it was a CIA operation, rather than the White House sanctioned crime that it really was.
Similarly, it is my belief that the Bush administration is trying to hide its criminal activity in a similar fashion, behind a veil of legitimate national security secrets.
Can I prove this now?....NO.....Am I sure these crimes will be made public & prosecuted in the near future?...Yes


Getting back to the main topic here, I think a basic difference between the way we look at government is this:

I believe that MOST Presidents are moral men, just like you & I. The idea that FDR could have known about the Pearl Harbor attack...beforehand.....but allowed thousands of his fellow countrymen to be killed, when he could have prevented that, is just beyond everything I have ever read of heard about him.
Similarly, even with the obvious...downright hatred that I have for GW Bush, I could never believe that he is so evil that he would stage the 9/11 attacks & kill thousands of his fellow Americans either. Gross incompetence...absolutely. Intentional mass murder......No.

No insider information is claimed or needed for me to feel that Hollywood has managed to blur the lines between fantasy & reality for many Americans. The TV show "24", (which I have never even seen but heard about) evidently presents a fantasy world of dangerous villains & super heroes that exist only on the TV screen, not in real life.

Please do not take this as a personal put down Terry, as it's not meant to be one. Rather it's meant to present my OPINION based on historical facts that can be substantiated & some personal knowledge of the way real government operates. Most government lies are either meant to enhance our security, manufactured to promote an agenda or released to cover up incompetence. (Occasionally, & thankfully RARELY, they are released to cover actual crimes)


Edit: Oops.....Forgot this, which i wanted to comment on:..."There are many things that have gone on and continue to this day that you or your grandchildren will never know about, regardless of the Freedom of Information Act."....

I disagree with this assumption Terry. While I can't prove this is wrong, it is my sincere belief that eventually everything is revealed to history. Whether by an author trying to sell book, a family member trying to straighten the record for a Parent/Grandparent or whatever, ..........It will all eventually come out.

"Similarly, it is my belief that the Bush administration is trying to hide its criminal activity in a similar fashion, behind a veil of legitimate national security secrets.
Can I prove this now?....NO.....Am I sure these crimes will be made public & prosecuted in the near future?...Yes"

What kind of crimes are you suspecting (or your leftover contacts) suspecting? Wanna bet a bag of coal on this one too? Better yet, lets do a ton of coal on this one. Oh that George, he is such an evil, sinister, and nasty America hating man. Well ok, he orchestrated a terrorist hit-less 7 years for America, but other than that he hates us and is very, very evil.


Why just the other day he approved pouring water on the face of a man that would like to loop off our heads with very sharp knives. George, what a beast. Bad Bad Man

BHO will be much better, he will negotiate with these bad men and show them a better way. Gee, did I just hear birds singing?

[quote="coalmeister"]What kind of crimes are you suspecting (or your leftover contacts) suspecting?


Don't have allot of time to research the specific citations right now coalmeister but I'd venture an educated guess that these will be among many indictments,,,There are probably hundreds of such violations a decent law clerk could indict on: (will discuss any bets later)


Violations of some of the following........ in just the Oil Company related violations alone:
(wel'l get into U.S. Atty related firings, Geneva Convention violations & other International Law violations later



TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 19
CHAPTER 19—CONSPIRACY

# § 371. Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States

Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 (Title 15 of the United States Code), the main source of American antitrust law, which forbids "every contract, combination in the form of trust or otherwise, or conspiracy, in restraint of trade or commerce among the several States, or with foreign nations." The state attorneys general, under the direction of the federal Attorney General, have primary enforcement duties.

1. PRICE FIXING

Price fixing is an agreement among competitors at any level of the economy (manufacturers, distributors, or retailers) to raise, fix, or otherwise maintain the price at which their products or services are sold. Price fixing can take many forms, such as an agreement among manufacturers of a particular product to establish a minimum price for that product. Price fixing can also be an agreement among competing buyers of a product to lower prices they will pay for that product.

Price fixing is any agreement among competitors which affects the ultimate price or terms of sale for a product or service. It is not necessary, however, that the conspirators agree to charge exactly the same price for a given item; for example, an agreement to raise their individual prices by a certain amount or maintain a certain profit margin also violates the law. Other examples of price fixing include agreements to:

* establish or adhere to uniform price discounts;

* eliminate discounts;

* adopt a standard formula for the computation of selling prices;

* notify others prior to reducing prices;

* fix credit terms;

* maintain predetermined price differentials between different quantities, types, or sizes of products; and

* maintain floor prices.


3. Law Encyclopedia: Obstruction of Justice
This entry contains information applicable to United States law only.

A criminal offense that involves interference, through words or actions, with the proper operations of a court or officers of the court.

The integrity of the judicial system depends on the participants' acting honestly and without fear of reprisals. Threatening a judge, trying to bribe a witness, or encouraging the destruction of evidence are examples of obstruction of justice. Federal and state laws make it a crime to obstruct justice.

Obstruction of justice in the federal courts is governed by a series of criminal statutes (18 U.S.C.A. §§ 1501-1517), which aim to protect the integrity of federal judicial proceedings as well as agency and congressional proceedings. Section 1503 is the primary vehicle for punishing those who obstruct or who endeavor to obstruct federal judicial proceedings.