CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DAUL READING STOKERS

PostBy: Blackdiamonddoug On: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:27 pm

Very impressive doug
BBD
Blackdiamonddoug
 
Stove/Furnace Make: axemen 260 rebuilt by Matt
Stove/Furnace Model: stoker AA 260

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DAUL READING STOKERS

PostBy: DOUG On: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:14 pm

pconn171:

The outside tempature and the demand for heat determines how much coal used. I've used as little as 60lbs at 40 degrees outside and as much as 200lbs like yesterday when it dropped into the teens last night. I'm sort of guessing on the pounds. I've been using a standard coal bucket with three square shovels in each bucket and three to four buckets into each hopper every twelve hours with the tempatures we have been having the last week. Between 19 degrees and 32 degrees. Keeping the 3700 sq.ft. house between 69 to 72 degrees.

As for the duct work, I totally redone the place. I used the book "THE HOMEOWNERS GUIDE TO COALBURNING STOVES AND FURNACES by JAMES W. MORRISON."
Page 142 states " The Extended Plenum System. "

To determine size of main warm air duct. Take the number of each branch runs (6" pipe only) times 2 plus 2" for duct width. Example: 7 branches x 2 = 14 plus 2 = 16". Duct would be 16 x8 for the extended plenum system. For an extended plenum containing angles add 1" to the plenum for each 45 degree angle. Add 2" for each 90 degree elbow used in the plenum. It is recommended that the extended plenum should not contain more than two angles or one elbow.

The part from grainger Neil talked about is 1TDN5. But I told Neil I ordered the adjustable flap fans from U.S.Stove for their draft fan kit for more control af the fire. We'll see how it works. Talk to you soon. DOUG
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DAUL READING STOKERS

PostBy: billw On: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:28 pm

I'm late to the party as usual. Wow what an install. This one should be nominated for install of the year. What's the diameter of that ductwork? It looks like I could park my Saturn in it.Great job!!!!!

I do have one complaint. Why didn't you finish the door on the left unit in gold like the one on the right? :) Just kidding
billw
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM 520
Stove/Furnace Model: GOODBYE OIL COMPANY

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DAUL READING STOKERS

PostBy: DOUG On: Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:32 pm

billw:

The duct work size of the CLAYTONS is 20" round. How I came up with that size is according to the calculation from the book posted earlier.

17 (6" round pipe branch runs) X 2 + (2" for 90 degree elbow) + (2" for 90 degree elbow) + (2" for 90 degree elbow) X 8" for the duct = 320sq.in.

17 x 2 = 34 + 2 + 36 + 2 = 38 + 2 + 40 x 8 = 320

The book says,

18" round pipe = 254.46 sq.in.

20" round pipe = 314.16 sq.in.

22" round pipe = 380.13 sq.in.

So, the 20" round pipe fell within the 10% of recomended sizing for solid fuel duct sizing. At first, I was leery of sizing the system that way. Taking all the square smaller ductulator sized duct out. But I new it really didn't work too well with the hand fired CLAYTON, let alone the forced gas and air conditioning so far. So I thought, what the heck, I can always put it back the way it was. From the 20" round plenum it narrows to two 12" branches and one 16" branch and to another 12" branch from the 16". All being sized from the calculation above. Well guess what. It has out performed anything I could of imagined. Even the gas forced air and the air conditioning system works better. :D Whoever came up with that calculation sure knows their stuff!! :idea: I'm glad I did it and would recommend any new system or remodel to do the same. Round flows better, is quieter, weighs less, cost less to install and in my oppinion, easier to install. :) The only down side is that it doesn't fit into space as easily and if your the tin knocker, you you won't make as much money on the fabrication.

Thanks for the nomination. DOUG
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DAUL READING STOKERS

PostBy: pconn171 On: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:34 pm

So how did you have your ducts made? You measure, generate sketches and have someone fabricate? Did someone else measure and fabricate? Did everything fit together well?
pconn171
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Reading
Stove/Furnace Model: Susquehanna

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DAUL READING STOKERS

PostBy: Greyhound On: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:22 am

Great looking install...I did a Google search on your Book title and came up empty...any chance that you have an ISBN number for it...I'd like to take a look at it. Tnx :!:
Greyhound
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 105
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Lenox Oil HA, Heat Pump

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DAUL READING STOKERS

PostBy: DOUG On: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:04 am

pconn171:

I happened to be very fortunate a good freind of mine just happens to work for a hvac and duct fabrication co. He told me everyone at the shop didn't think it was going to work. Boy were they suprised when he told them it worked better than the square they make and install everywhere. Sure there was the cutting, some bending, some bleeding and a little swearing. But that happens with square duct also. I went accrording to the book and we measured, cut and fit it together.

Greyhound:

I had first found this book at my local Public Library. Then I searched to buy it like you and could not find it at any book store. I talked to the librarian and she gave me a company, on line, that sells out of print used, mostly old library copies.The web is abebooks.com.

TITLE: The Homeowner's Guide to Coalburning Stoves and Furnaces
AUTHOR: James W. Morrison
ISBN (LIBRARY EDITION): 0-668-05097-7
ISBB (PAPER EDITION): 0-668-05100-0

Hope this helps. DOUG
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

PostBy: DOUG On: Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:35 pm

Hi, Everyone. Here are some pictures of the combustion blowers added to the reading stokers. These blowers I got are from U.S.Stove Company. usstove.com.They are the same blowers and hardware that comes with the CLAYTON's draft kit.
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Now I'm ready to test the COAL TROL option with two motors.
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

PostBy: DOUG On: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:16 pm

Here is some pictures of the fire full bast, with the new blowers.
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This baby was cranking!
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

PostBy: North Candlewood On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:03 am

Doug
Again I must say Great Job and Thank You! :D
I did the libary yesterday (since we were bannish from here,Thank You Richard for getting us back!) and got THE BOOK! At least the book,in this sense of the world!
As Schultz would say "Very intersesting"

In your post of yesterday showing the draft blowers added I noticed the return air intake to the unit.I am not sure what I'm seeing there? As you have done thus far in educating us in your project I will keep looking forward to that chapter. This is like a good bottle of your choice you just keep going for more. Everything in moderation :P
Charles
North Candlewood
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Eshland S-130
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 120
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1602
Baseburners & Antiques: Princess Atlantic Cookstove
Coal Size/Type: Nut Rice

Great Job but one question.

PostBy: boilermaker On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:21 pm

Your installation looks like it was done at a factory and designed with the unit! Great Job!
However, I'm a bit concerned with on thing. It appears that the actual fire from the grate may be impinging on the bulkhead of the furnace. If this is the case you may want to keep a close eye on the steel right above it for warping. This could open up communication between the combustion chamber and the house air path through the furnace and possibly cause problems. With a hot coal fire right underneath that steel it could burn it out or warp in a very short time. Perhaps you've considered this and this whole text is meaningless but I'd never forgive myself if something happened to someone on here and I know I could have spoken up.

At any rate, you've given the furnace manufacturers something to think about in terms of great engineering!

(also) Doug
boilermaker
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Sime, hand fired hot water boiler
Stove/Furnace Make: Sime
Stove/Furnace Model: 6 section hand fired boiler

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

PostBy: DOUG On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:01 pm

boilermaker:

Thank you for the nice complements. Yes, I had considered long and hard on the placement positioning of the stokers in the CLAYTON's firebox. It really was a difficult decision to make. I studied the CLAYTON's design along with many other manufactures furnaces designs for the past four years. I narrowed my furnace choices to three. My top three choices of manufactured furnaces narrowed to ENERGY KING http://www.energyking.com, WOODCHUCK http://www.meyermfg.com, and UNITED STATES STOVE's CLAYTON http://www.usstove.com. There were many, many other furnaces I reveiwed. It was hard to beat the CLAYTON in my opinion. The best bang for the buck! The biggest option in design which sold me over all others, was the fact that the CLAYTON's firebox ceiling, in the center, is fully lined with 1 1/4" of firebrick. The second is that it has a fully insulated jacket. The lower price tag was just a bonus, not even considered in my decision making.

Back to the grate position and close proximity to the furnace ceiling. When I hand fired the units prior to this conversion, I tried many ways of firing the stove. Often pushing the firing limit for long periods of time. I held out to see what its limits were. That is why I feel the position of the stokers was the most ideal place in the firebox. Close enough up front to light and maintain, high enough for ashes to drop, far enough from the firebox ceiling for good flame path, but close enough to the ceiling for a higher heat exchange below the bonnet. The next option I feel will limit the possbility of firebox burnout at hard firing rates.

The option not installed yet into this conversion is the domestic hot water. The position directly above the stoker grates, on the same firebox roof angle, is were I would locate the hot water coil(s) from HILKOIL http://www.hilkoil.com. I need to study on the heat exchange rate of water and what the possiblities are of additional water coils in the firebox, before I cut anymore holes. There maybe enough heat to transfer for hot water radiators. That is going to be a much later chapter in the CLAYTON PROJECT.

Thanks for all your interest. Still designing, playing a little too! :lol:
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:02 pm

Doug,

You have done a wonderful job. Not only with your construction but also with your research. Congratulations on a job well done. It's truly a professional job.

A suggestion for your water coil. I grew up in a home heated with a Burnham hand fired Anthracite boiler. Domestic hot water was provided by a cast iron "hand" suspended in the fire box above the burning coals. It looked like a four finger fist with stubby fingers. A pair of steel pipes suspended the "hand" and exited the boiler at the rear. I don't remember or perhaps never knew the details of how these pipes exited the firebox. They were piped to a uninsulated steel vertical storage tank. Tank heating was solely by thermal gravity. Since cast iron seemed to be a desirable material for the "hand" I often thought what I might use today. Perhaps a single or pair of end sections from a small cast iron radiator would work. I have seen fairly small radiators, from the "modern radiator" era, the 1950's that might be the right size. Perhaps a section of cast iron baseboard would work. That's just a guess in that I've never seen a cast iron baseboard unit up close. Good luck with what ever you choose.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

PostBy: seabee570 On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:19 pm

very nice install.I looked at the heet inc website but did not see the reading stokers for sale.can you just buy the triburner?What would just the triburner cost?
seabee570
 

Re: CLAYTON FURNACE WITH DUAL READING STOKERS

PostBy: DOUG On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:41 pm

seabee570:

Thank you for the complement. No you will not find the stokers for sale on the website. I was very fortunate that they sold me two complete triburner assemblies. Most companies will not sell you just there stokers. They are concerned with the consumers end useage safety. There are some people that may try to put the stoker in a 55 gal. drum and think It is better than factory, then burn their house down. At the time of my purchase, earlier in the year, each READING Mid stoker complete, cost $435.00 each plus tax. That does not include the hopper or any electronic controls. Prices may have gone up, I don't know.

I'm working on trying to come up with a CLAYTON CONVERSION KIT available for others to install on their own. :idea: I still have to get all the pieces and parts together. I'll need the winter season to test the unit to answer any possible questions and get all the parts makers to supply me. Pray everyone will cooperate. It has been working that good and from all the forums members replies, there seems to be enough DO IT YOUR SELF AMATURE ENGINNERS out there that wouldn't mind tackling a project like this. And a few more if you supply a kit. Work in progress. A little more play too! :lol: I'll keep you all posted. :) Thanks DOUG
DOUG
 
Stove/Furnace Make: CHUBBY, D.S.MACHINE BOILER
Stove/Furnace Model: CLAYTON 1600

Visit Lehigh Anthracite