Chapter 11 for the Big 3?

Consumer Reports "Reliability of new models by category"
(Just the top 5's because some lists are too long)

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/types/reliability-comparison-index.htm

FAMILY CARS
Toyota Prius
Ford Fusion (4cyl)
Mercury Milan (4cyl)
Kia Optima
Toyota Camry Hybrid

UPSCALE CARS
Lexus IS250 (RWD)
Acura TSX
Lexus IS250 (AWD)
Infiniti G35 Sedan (RWD)
Acura TL

LUXURY CARS
Infiniti M35 (RWD)
Lexus GS450h (hybrid)
Infiniti M35 (AWD)
Acura RL
Infiniti M45

LARGE CARS
Toyota Avalon
Buick Lucerne (V8)
Hyundai Azera
Buick Lucerne (V6)
Chrysler 300 (V8)

SMALL CARS
Mini Cooper Clubman
Toyota Yaris Hatchback
Suzuki SX4
Honda Fit
Hyundai Elantra

COUPES AND CONVERTIBLES
Lexus SC
Volvo C30
Toyota Camry Solara (4cyl)
Scion tC
Toyota Camry Solara (V6)

SPORTS CARS
Mazda3 Hatchback
Subaru Impreza (non-turbo)
Mini Cooper Hatchback
Audi S4, RS4
Honda Civic Coupe and Hatchback

ROADSTERS
Honda S2000
Nissan 350Z
Porsche Boxster
Mazda MX-5 Miata
BMW Z3, Z4

MINIVANS
Toyota Sienna FWD
Toyota Sienna AWD
Honda Odyssey
Nissan Quest
Kia Sedona

SMALL SUVs
Honda Element
Toyota FJ Cruiser
Toyota RAV4 (4cyl)
Honda CR-V
Hyundai Tucson (4cyl)

MIDSIZED SUVs
Honda Pilot
Toyota 4Runner (V6)
Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Lexus RX
Nissan Murano

LARGE SUVs
Toyota Sequoia
Dodge Durango
Ford Expedition (4WD)
Chrysler Aspen
Buick Enclave (FWD)

COMPACT PICKUPs
Honda Ridgeline
Toyota Tacoma (4cyl)
Toyota Tacoma (V6)
Nissan Frontier (4WD)
Mazda B-Series (2WD)

FULL SIZED PICKUPS
Toyota Tundra (V6)
Ford F150 (V6 Two Wheel Drive)
Nissan Titan (2WD)
Chevy Avalanche 1500
Chevy Silverado 1500 (V8 Two Wheel Drive)

Nasty looking short list...if you subscribe to CR you'd be disgusted with the full list.

The way I see it....The Big 3 manufacture crap vehicles and reliability has been killing them more than MPG ratings.

My head ache is a Trailblazer. It is paid off (thank God). The good thing about it being paid off is that I no longer have to pay the monthly car payment along with what ever repairs it needs. Now I just pay for repairs. Some have been covered by warranty but every time it was in the shop for warranty covered repairs I was still without the vehicle for 24+ hours each time it was in. Had to pay for a rental on 2 occassions. Good looking vehicle...even when it is loaded on a flat bed headed to the garage for repairs.
It truly is the last "American Named" vehicle I will ever buy (at least until American Named vehicles start to dominate the top 5). I have friends that say if you buy foriegn, your repair cost increases...I asked them to pay for my Trailblazer repairs...they refused. American Auto Makers are killing themselves by manufacturing unreliable vehicles. God Blessed those that never had problems with their Chevy's, Fords, Dodges, etc...the last time I owned a reliable American Named vehicle was a 1986 Chevy S-10...but even that had a head gasket go bad with 30000 miles on it. 2 Dodges and 1 Chevy since and nothing but problems with all 3. No more...I'm done with them...just don't use my tax dollars to help them...I already pay them yearly in parts and labor

my overweight gas guzzling cars are safe and 20 mpg isnt bad for a two ton rwd car with a crapload of miles
it's pathetic that all the new cars get worse fuel economy than they did in the 1980's
let them file chapter 11.....maybe they will get their heads out of their asses and build cars that people will actually drive

Anyone have a nineties Dodge minivan that did not blow the tranny at 75,000 miles? (Although my 2001 has been fairly reliable.) The problem with the big 3 is the same problem plaguing the rest of the country; GREED!! Management with their fat bonuses, guys on the line swinging a wrench for $30 per hour, pensions that pay better than the average Joe is earning working, lifetime health insurance, the list goes on & on. They must reorganize under chapter 11 and get their costs in line, then start putting the money into the cars instead of their pockets. And take their over paid suppliers with them. I have zero pity for them. Maybe Toyota & Honda could take over their plants and show them how it's done.

stovepipemike wrote: Well,that "Big Three Thinking" singing canary is off the perch and lying in the bottom of the cage.

BugsyR wrote:The way I see it....The Big 3 manufacture crap vehicles and reliability has been killing them more than MPG ratings.

The way I see it is .....it's more of a systemic problem that seems to have permeated all phases of our society, business also. When I was a kid in the 1950's this country took pride in producing the best of everything in the world: The best cars, aircraft, appliances, toys, clothing, shoes, TV's.....EVERYTHING!!

Seems to me somewhere between the 1960's -1970's the damned ACCOUNTANTS took over the country & the "Bottom Line" became the only thing that mattered....Pride in craftsman, dependability, customer loyalty, etc....all took a back seat to PROFIT!!

We lost our way in everything: Families sticking together, education,Taking responsibility for your actions, .......everything became "Instant Gratification", "Quick Profit"...You name it! We decided i was "OK" to settle for 3rd rate products & 3rd rate service. (when I was a kid & you pulled into a gas station. 3 guys would run out & check your oil, clean your windshield & fill your tank. Now....You're lucky if you can find a pimple faced kid with earrings, sitting in a warm little house who'll begrudgingly take you money after YOU pumped your own gas!!
My wife will occasionally go through the "ring Up Your Own Order" lines at the supermarket....I refuse!! I don't work there (when they pay me for working at their store, I'll think about ringing myself up & bagging my own food. Until then......NO WAY!!
Do any kids even take the time to learn how to play musical instrument anymore?...No...They buy keyboards that play themselves!!!

It's all part of the same problem & I don't know if it's too late to change our ways, but it's time for us to start taking pride in what we build, sell, write, marry, elect...You name it!!


Rant of an old man....Over! (I need a drink!)


Edit: I think that's why this forum & the people here are so refreshing. WE do things for ourselves & help out our brother coal burners! No one here is sitting back complaining & waiting for someone else to keep them warm, fix things or make our lives better. We take the responsibility to put in some time & effort & take pride in our accomplishments.....GODDAMN IT!!
(always ad a "Goddamn It" at the end of a sentence for emphasis!!)

coalmeister wrote:Anyone have a nineties Dodge minivan that did not blow the tranny at 75,000 miles? ...

1992 Dodge Caravan SE....78000 miles. (back then I did not know about a thing called "after warranty assistance" if I did, maybe I could have saved myself $2500)....Mopar Crap

Funny thing about that van....that was the vehicle I traded my '86 Chevy S10 for.

ErikLaurence wrote:Someone on the committee should ask the execs how they got to DC to testify.

I'm guessing they didn't fly commercial. I'm guessing they flew private. Flying on a $40 million private jet that costs tens of thousands of dollars a day to operate seems ironic for execs begging the taxpayers to bail them out.

IF we bail them out, all auto execs should be forced to fly coach.

Big Three CEOs Flew Private Jets to Plead for Public Funds

"All three CEOs - Rick Wagoner of GM, Alan Mulally of Ford, and Robert Nardelli of Chrysler - exercised their perks Tuesday by flying in corporate jets to DC. Wagoner flew in GM’s $36 million luxury aircraft to tell members of Congress that the company is burning through cash, asking for $10-12 billion for GM alone."

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WallStree ... 739&page=1

spc wrote:Big Three CEOs Flew Private Jets to Plead for Public Funds

That says it all Stephen!!

Devil505 wrote: (always ad a "Goddamn It" at the end of a sentence for emphasis!!)

DAMMIT!

Good rant Dick!

2 daughters...2 violinists...both started in 5th grade in Va Beach...both play first violin in high school orchestra...oldest is first chair...youngest is right behind her...Christmas concerts coming up...very excited!

Good for you Mike!!

Thanks Dick....now if I could only get them to play at home for me every once in a while!

coalmeister wrote:Anyone have a nineties Dodge minivan that did not blow the tranny at 75,000 miles? (Although my 2001 has been fairly reliable.) The problem with the big 3 is the same problem plaguing the rest of the country; GREED!! Management with their fat bonuses, guys on the line swinging a wrench for $30 per hour, pensions that pay better than the average Joe is earning working, lifetime health insurance, the list goes on & on. They must reorganize under chapter 11 and get their costs in line, then start putting the money into the cars instead of their pockets. And take their over paid suppliers with them. I have zero pity for them. Maybe Toyota & Honda could take over their plants and show them how it's done.

my moms caravan trans crapped out at 78,000 but i had a dodge sedan with the same transmission go to 226,000 miles before the pump seal gave out......i had an 88 caravan that went to 330,000 on the orig transmision......at least american transmissions can be affordably rebuilt......price out an auto trans rebuild on an import car sometime

"at least American transmissions can be affordability rebuilt."

In business there is always a discount on volume

I drive fords, and have had pretty good luck. I buy new, and drive them into the ground. Maint. is key, do it and they live
blow it off and they die. Jap cars die too, when you blow them off. They are for the most part better,they take a little more
abuse before they die from neglect.
All bankruptcy will do is allow a judge to whack the union. 68/hr plus full bennies for working a line? Never mind paid this and that. It is ridiculously good money. So good, the companies can not do it anymore. So maybe letting them go bankrupt
is the way. The reset button

Devil - well said.