Cold Air Return?

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Dallas On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:28 pm

It sounds like you should be OK. The cold air will be at the floor. Once you provide a means for the cold air to go back to the stove, the heat should enter the room. Everything is subject to "trial and error". I have holes in the floor, which I don't need, however they have registers in them, so no one knows!
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Qball On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:54 pm

Devil505 wrote:
Qball wrote:Well I bit the bullet and bought the stuff to vent directly back to the stove. I have a blower in line below the register, used flex duct back to the blower on the stove


Neat!

I assume the floor register (pic 1) is the return to your blower intake, but where does the stove blower (heated air) duct to?


Out front of stove and piped to two registers.
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Qball
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Qball On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:56 pm

Dallas wrote:It sure does look familiar :!: I never had the Harley in next to my stove, though.

The reason you have gone through , what you did, is probably because you bought a "room heater", saw that it had more potential and went from there.

Good job! You didn't say how it seems to be working. :?:



Seems to be working....It was 47 today so I am waiting for temp to drop again. The front room is getting warmer and I am leaving the basement door closed.
Qball
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker
Coal Size/Type: Rice


Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: the snowman On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:01 pm

Dallas:

I have gone through and insulated the attic and have sealed any holes outside with caulk and expanding foam where needed. I also have repointed the entire foundation since it is field stone. The air return for the stove was once a heat duct for the furnace, however, I disconnected it from the furnace and it is a dedicated return to the coal stove from the furthest room. I was reading your past posts and the posts we have been writing and the idea that the stove may be creating the cold draft across the floor. This makes sense since it draws its combustion air from within the house. So, if I were to add a fresh air line, could I tie it into the cold air return at the point just before it exits the floor next to the stove? I really don't want to cut another hole in the hardwood floor. I could direct the air from the return toward the draft door on the front of the stove. I was thinking of using a two inch pvc line for the fresh air line. As for heat being wasted up the chimney: My stack temp is only 150 degrees while the stove is 575 degrees. The snow on the top of the chimney cap has not melted. I have tomorrow to work on this and then I will not be able to work on it until next week. I have a ton of family coming tomorrow evening for the holiday. I apologize for not writing back sooner. I will take most of tomorrow to try to iron out the problem. I hope I can get this drafting problem fixed before tomorrow evening. I appreciate all the information and ideas you have been sharing with me. So, what do you think about the fresh air idea? Let me know.

wayne.
the snowman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507
Coal Size/Type: Nut, Stove coal, Egg coal

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Dallas On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:14 pm

I'm going to have to re-read and digest.

My first thoughts were "outside air" for combustion, however if the stove is pulling air up out of the grate, it also should be able to pull it down through. Where is the air, which is coming up through the grate coming from, in your opinion? The duct work is only running between the grate and the stove, at this point, is it not? Are there other take-offs or openings along the line? Is it still hooked to the furnace? Can you take pictures?
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: the snowman On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:59 pm

Dallas:

The return has no other take offs on this line. It only travels from the grate to the stove. It is not connected to the furnace. I was thinking that if I were to have a fresh air line dump into the return line as close as possible to where it exits the floor next to the stove the fresh air would get siphoned up through the grate and get pushed toward the stove. I would run the fan I have installed in the return duct in the room the return orginates from. In my opinion I think the air is being pulled from the room the return orginates from. I will try to get a couple of pics tomorrow and post them.

wayne.
the snowman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507
Coal Size/Type: Nut, Stove coal, Egg coal

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Dallas On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:09 am

Why is air coming up through that grate? Where can it be coming from, since the other end of the duct is over by the stove? I'd play around with an open window, here and there, to see what happens, before getting too serious with a fresh air line. :?: :?: :?:
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: the snowman On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:43 am

Dallas:

I just finished playing around with opening windows. I opened a window that is located five feet from the stove. I started with just a crack and had a smoke source burning. No change in draft across the floor. I opened the window one inch, check, two inches, check, three inches. . .ect, check, opened the window all the way. No change in flow across floor. I did manage to cool the living room down ten degrees with cold air from the outside. At this point in the game my frustration level is fairly high and I'm considering two options: 1. Pour some gas and burn the house down and start fresh. 2. Shut down the coal stove and fill the fuel tank and get some draft free sleep. The one sure way to eliminate this cold draft which when seen with smoke looks like the gulf stream would be to install a coal boiler if I wanted to stay with coal and put a radiator in every room. The problem is if I decide to run the oil furnace I will be plowing through 200 gallons of oil per month since it is an old inefficient furnace. It would also eliminate the drafting problem. Like I said my frustration level is high and I'm ready to burn down the house and move into the wood shop which has an open floor plan. I would just have to move a couple of the machines. Would the wife approve of it; probably not, however, she would have to if she came home from work and the house was no longer standing. I will not be working on the draft problem tomorrow for if I do I will definately burn down the house. Tomorrow I'll finish a cedar chest for one of my customers (this always lowers my frustration level) and will come in the house to check the forum a couple of times tomorrow. I'm still open to any ideas. Thanks.

wayne.
the snowman
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Jotul 507
Coal Size/Type: Nut, Stove coal, Egg coal

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Dallas On: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:47 am

I understand the frustration. If you read my "stove story" at the bottom, you'll see that it took me 10 years to "just get the stove to burn", and even now, I don't know why the issue has turned around 180* :!: Also, you'll note, the heat transfer issue didn't cure it self with the wave a wand.

It seems like it's time to re-group! You know what doesn't work ... yet, but you don't know "why". I have one off the cuff thought, which is, remove the duct from the register or whatever near the stove. Allow that hole to be open between the basement and stove (for a test) .. see what happens. My thoughts here, .. bring combustion air up from the basement area. The air coming out of the bedroom grate has me confused, as to where it's going and why. Also, with a "closed duct-work", where is it coming from? :?:
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: sharkman8810 On: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:09 am

I've been reading this and trying to think of ideas. An idea for you to try is just blow the air out of the cold room and into the basement room that has the stove in it, dont duct it any farther than necessary a stub would be great. Those 6" fans arent to strong and don't really move alot of air. You'll get more cold air out of the room, if you cut the distance it has to push the air. Possibly add duct fans to your hot air runs, the air isn't moving fast and your losing alot of heat as it meanders along the duct, this will also pull some of the load from the stove fan and increase efficiency. The hitzer fan is a 210 cfm and 6" fans are close to that so it shouldnt mess things up to much by creating a vaccuum in the duct.

Like was previously mentioned you dont have the style of stove for this. Your 50-93 is worth considerably more than a model 82 or 55 and one of them in the furnace model (or u.l. ) would be awesome for you. Maybe try to make a trade with a dealer would be an idea for the future.
sharkman8810
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: hitzer 82 ul
Coal Size/Type: nut
Stove/Furnace Make: hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 82 u.l.

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Dallas On: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:23 am

the snowman wrote:The problem is if I decide to run the oil furnace I will be plowing through 200 gallons of oil per month since it is an old inefficient furnace. It would also eliminate the drafting problem.


My thought for today. If running the furnace would eliminate the drafting problem, I'm wondering if the furnace chimney could be the culprit. Without the furnace running, is there a ton of cold air coming down the furnace chimney and pressurizing the basement?
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Qball On: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:48 pm

Well I am pleased with the way the stove and duct work is working. The only thing I noticed is I cannot get the temp upstairs higher than 71 with the temps 25-30 outside. I know this is warm, but when the temps really drop, I think the oil furnace will be starting. I am getting 150 - 170 degrees at the registers, and there is some air movement from the stove blower. If I add in-line booster fans to my two heat ducts, will I see more heat? Now the duct work in the basement is very hot to the touch and I am probably losing much heat through radiation. Are the fans that sit on top of the registers worth the money, or go in-line?

Thanks
Qball
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: WNY On: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:22 pm

Try and insulate your ducts, that will get you more hot air upstairs.

You can try and push or pull the air with the duct fan or register fans, but they can be noisy.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Dallas On: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:26 pm

Also, moving "cold air" back toward the heat source, would be more efficient than moving "warm air".
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Cold Air Return?

PostBy: Qball On: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:48 pm

I have a cold air return, ducted back directly to stove blower, with and in-line booster fan at the return register. As pictured in one of my above posts. I will try to insulate the ducts...what the heck it's only money.
Qball
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker Koker
Coal Size/Type: Rice