Baro? Why bother?

Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: Kenbod On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:31 pm

Concerning the baro damper: yes, I have one (Field Controls), set at about -0.03in.

But, really, why?

The baro allows conditioned warm air to get sucked up the chimney. And, if draft is too low, it can allow exhaust into the room.

Unlike my old handfired boiler which operated purely on passive natural draft, my Keystoker has a little fan which constantly pressurizes the burn chamber. If the chimney draft is lower than this pressure, exhaust will actually follow the path of least resistance out any crack, including the baro damper. That's why all the furnace cement helped immensely during my initial firings on warm days.

I understand that the baro damper relieves excessive draft/vacuum by diverting conditioned air up the chimney. Excessive draft on my old manual unit could overcome the intent of the thermostatic damper and allow the boiler to overfire and overheat. It helped a lot. In the case of the Keystoker, however, I don't have a massive load of 100# of coal in the burn chamber. I only have fuel that gets stoked.

I would think that a well-drafting chimney on a warmer day would be a better drafting chimney on a colder day. Without a barodamper, the draft would "suck" more air in through the little fan which is, I think, exactly what one wants as it gets cold. One wouldn't even need to mess with the fan aperature as it gets colder.

I don't plan on removing the baro damper, but I'd love to hear your insights.
Kenbod
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Van Wert Simplex Multitherm
Stove/Furnace Model: Keystoker Kaa-2

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: gambler On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:45 pm

If you suck too hard on a stoker stove you increase the possibility of a hopper fire greatly. And that amount of warm air going out the baro is nothing compared to the extra heat that the stove makes by keeping the heat in the stove longer instead of it quickly being drawn out the chimney.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:01 pm

Would you rather suck room temperature out the chimney or suck 450* air from the inside of the stove? Also, without the barometric damper the draft can go higher then needed making your fire hotter than needed. You won't know it though, all that extra heat will be going up the chimney. Ohhh, you might notice when you use 50 pounds of coal a day instead of 35.
That's why bother.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

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Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: WNY On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:03 pm

it regulates the stove much better with one, especially if you have a tall chimney, granted, some may not even need one, if you have a moderate draft and a short chimney, it can't create a lot draft, therefore, with or without, you would still have the same draft.

The warmer outside, the less draft you will have, that is why when it's really cold out, HOT AIR RISES much faster and therefore creates a lot of draft, if you didn't have a baro damper, it would suck all the more heat from your stove and make it burn much faster and waster more fuel.

My chimney is like like 30-35 thru the house and out the peek. I can close off my Baro and my Manometer will run up to almost -.08 - 1.0, when it gets really cold out, it can go even higher. The baro opens and regulates the stove back down to the setpoint of .04 or so. Keeping as much heat in the stove as possible. otherwsie it would be sucking more heat from the stove that I can use in the house....

I have never had any fumes come out the damper even on very low draft (less than .02) on a very warm day. Unless the pressure equalizes at the top and the bottom, it will always want to draw upwards creating a vacuum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimney#Ch ... t_or_draft
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: Horace On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:55 am

I ran for five years without a baro damper because the previous owner of the house never used one and told me that it was unnecessary. Without it, on a really windy day, and I get a lot of them, I could actually hear the air/draft pulling against the combustion blower. In other words, the draft was higher than what the fan was pushing.

After reading the info on this site, I installed one. First windy day we had, the damper went nuts. It never slammed closed (this is good, I think - no downdrafts) but it would swing wide open at times. I have noticed lower coal consumption and much better heat.
Horace
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman ST8-VF8 / Frankenstove

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: billshaver On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:01 am

On my logwood furnace I've one soley for the oil burner, its a single firbox for the oil burner & when firing on coal, when firing on coal i cap off the damper to prevent backfeeding at low firing rates. i've also a chimney thats completely outside the hose & consequently some times have trouble with the oil burner to alevie this i set the damer to be slightly open when no firing is taking place , otherwise i get flame outs.but its primarily there fro the oil burner.
billshaver
 
Stove/Furnace Make: logwood 22woc
Stove/Furnace Model: 1930's floyd weels cookstove

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:15 am

If you are concerned about the backdraft of CO on warmer days when the draft is marginal, would capping off the baro until cold weather moves in consistently be the answer? You can remove the cap when the cold weather comes in and let it do its thing to save coal usage.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: billshaver On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:26 am

i don't see why not on warm days, thats when i clean fires, & get a new one started, colder days at high firing rates sure make use of it. Cleaning firs somthing we did aboard ship when i worked on a coal burner in the lakes one furnace per every 7 days of firing, there you've about six to care for, haul ash, stoke & bank when doing the locks. 2 of you on top of getting wheel barrows from the bunker for the next watch, & hauling ash to ash hoist & blow it over the side.. But if the coal fire strats going out it could possibly backfeed, its to prevent this purely a safty issue.
billshaver
 
Stove/Furnace Make: logwood 22woc
Stove/Furnace Model: 1930's floyd weels cookstove

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: jimbo970 On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:00 pm

I am a little confused about the baro. I have an old brick house with a 35' chimney. Stove is in basement and there is a baro right above exhaust outlet. My question is that the baro never opens or at least I have never seen it swing open. Should I be concerned? I have the stove putting out about 350 degrees at this time and the pipe leading to the flue is hot but I can touch it and leave hand on it for a period of time, so my flue tems cannot be that much. The temps coming from my distribution vent are seemingly hotter.
jimbo970
 

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: bryansf7741 On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:23 pm

I have the same concern as jimbo in a previous post. I've only seen my baro damper move on one occasion when it was extremely windy. I noticed that the guy who set it up has the adjustment screw all the way to the right which I believe is an 8. Should I move this screw a little bit to the left. I'm concerned that I may be blowing thru more coal then I need too but I also don't want to screw anything up since everything is operating smoothly and safe and I've never had a reading higher then 0 on my CO detector. Any help is appreciated! Thanks
bryansf7741
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:04 pm

Jimbo & Bryan... you should use a manometer to verify what your draft is and what your baro counterweight should be set at. THere is a loaner program here on the board or you can buy one through eBay or at Grainger.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: WNY On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:10 pm

If you baro never opens, check to make sure it's not stuck, also it could have ash or rust build up on the back of it and the added weight really affects it operation. The "8" it is set at, may be a lot higher than you think, and sucking more heat from your stove. It should move freely, just blow on it hard and it should open, if it doesn't check it.

As you move the weight to the LEFT, it reduces the draft on the stove and start drawing from the baro. My old one had a lot of gunk on the back and even on 2, it wouldn't open properly, I had to add a washer to it to compensate for the gunk on the flapper. I have a NEW baro now that works great.

if it's on 8, that is -.08, if the baro never opens, you are never over .08 (or higher) draft on the stove, which is normally 2x higher then most stove recommend. Most operate in recommended range of -.02-.04 range.

My baro is open a little most of the time and a lot when it's colder.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: bryansf7741 On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:53 pm

Ok, I'll check it out tonight when I get home from work. So is their any risk to changing the setting on the baro. I just don't want to mess with it and have it lead to other issues such as CO issues or hopper fire. Is their any safe rule of thumb to use if not using the manometer? I don't need it to be perfect but I would like to get as close as possible so that I'm not wasting more coal then I need too. Thanks
bryansf7741
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Channing III

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: LsFarm On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:36 pm

Hello bryans.. a hopper fire is likely from too much draft. So moving your weight from '8' to say '5' would reduce the likelyhood of a hopper fire, not increase it.

If you reduce the baro too far, it could allow some CO to leak from a stove that is not sealed well, but if you set your baro when the stove is making a lot of heat, then set the baro so the flapper is just barely opening,, you should be close..

PM Matthaus for the loaner Mamometer,, it is the only accurate way to set the baro..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Baro? Why bother?

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:50 pm

If you lose 2% of the heat up the chimney because it's not adjusted just right, it won't be long before you spent more on wasted coal than a manometer would have cost. Or, see about borrowing one. Even if you only have it to use for a few days at least you'll be correct to begin with.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Visit Lehigh Anthracite