Unburned Coal

Unburned Coal

PostBy: majortom6x On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:07 pm

Here are some pics of my 2nd ash removal from new LL Hearth stove. Is so much unburned coal (know it is coal as crushes ) normal?
Burning coal from Cornwall Supply in Cornwall,NY. Coal -trol max at 40 & Min at 6. Burning 1 to 2 inch thick line on grate at approx. 2-1/2 inches from end of grate.
Coal-Trol regulates to +/- 1 degree. Burned about 100 lbs in two days of 18-25 degree weather to heat 2000 sq ft.
Is it normal for fire blower fan to run at a constant speed or should it vary?
Can an adjustment of my Max setting somehow make the coal burn completely?

Any explanations for the unburned coal and possible fixes are appreciated. I hope it is as simple as adjusting the max setting.
Other than the unburned coal I am very happy with the LL Hearth & Coal-Trol combination.

P.S. Sieve pic blurry but that's a dime for size reference.
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majortom6x
 

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: RAYJAY On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:25 pm

to me it looks like you got really bad coal, if you can crush the black pieces with you fingers (make sure it cold first ) then it is burning its just a lot of cull in that batch you got this year


Jeff
RAYJAY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VAN WERT - 600 VA HOT WATER
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN- MAGUM STOKER
Coal Size/Type: BUCKWHEAT ON BOTH
Other Heating: NG BOILER

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: WNY On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:27 pm

The Combustion Fan will run 100% all the time, no changing that.

You can increase your MAX up a bit if you need to get more heat, just make sure you are not pushing hot coals off when running full. Max really won't change the way it burns, just feeds more to increase the heat more.
But it won't change the burn characteristics of the coal.

My ash looks like granola, but does have some unburnt and other stuff in it. Could be just the brand/vein of the coal.

But, not a whole lot of changes you can make to increase it's burning efficiency.

If you get it burning TOO hot (too much air), then you get "Clinkers" or Coal Cakes that the coal (impurities) fuses together.
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WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
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Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

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Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: Pallmalled On: Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:56 pm

Hey Major, Steve from Cornwall just dropped off 4 tons of rice for me today. He swears by his coal quality. I have been burning his coal since early October and none looks that bad, although I did show him some of my ashes from recent days. He told me to turn up the air and turn down the feed rate. No can do with coaltrol. I am going to try a few things to get a better burn and I will keep you posted. I am also burning a LL Pioneer.
Pallmalled
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: majortom6x On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:48 am

Hi Pallmalled.
If the Coal-Trol had a means to slow the feed rate it would be the logical thing to try.
We are both burning coal from the same supplier in essentially the same stoves and I get more unburned coal than you. Why?
What are your Coal-Trol min & Max set at? Mine are default 6 & 40.
I have friends that are burning bagged rice from Cornwall , in Alaska stoves, and I will check with them to see if they are getting ash similiar to mine. If so then maybe an issue with the coal .
majortom6x
 

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: Gaptooth On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:02 am

I've noticed with my Pioneer that sometimes the coal will "pop" and throw some unburned coal into the ash pan. That's where most of my unburned coal comes from.
Gaptooth
 

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:06 pm

Pallmalled wrote: He told me to turn up the air and turn down the feed rate.


Sounds to me like he is talking about the old tri-burner units and not the newer design.

We are both burning coal from the same supplier in essentially the same stoves and I get more unburned coal than you. Why?


Do you both have coal out of the same shipment from your dealer?
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:15 pm

RAYJAY wrote:to me it looks like you got really bad coal, if you can crush the black pieces with you fingers (make sure it cold first ) then it is burning its just a lot of cull in that batch you got this year


Jeff


I agree with RAYJAY.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: majortom6x On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:36 pm

Hi all

Just talked to Neil over at Coal-Trol and he explained what some of you guys were trying to tell me about identifying unburned coal vs shale etc.
He said crush white ash clumps and if they crumble to ash then no unburned coal. If black small pieces in middle then unburned coal.
He said that most black pieces in ash pan are shale etc. as they would have burned somewhat from outside inwards if coal. Occasionally some pieces of coal may pop into ash pan but not likely with my stove.

So you guys are right , my coal is not the greatest. Question is how bad is really bad as Rayjay stated for my coal pics. Am I paying for 5lbs of junk in every 50 lb bag? Is the quality (btu output) of the actual coal per bag so good that it makes up for the junk?

Should I be looking for different coal source if this source continues bad?

FYI past two days of high teens to mid twenties I have been burning approx 45# to 50# to heat my 1900 sq ft , well insulated tri level with TS2 set to 72F D 72F N.
Could I expect to do much better with higher quality coal?
majortom6x
 

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: majortom6x On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:42 pm

To clarify . I am burning 45 to 50 lb per day for the past three days.
majortom6x
 

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: gambler On: Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:27 pm

majortom6x wrote:To clarify . I am burning 45 to 50 lb per day for the past three days.


That is what I have been burning the last 3 days to heat 2000sqft to 72*. But you have so many factors between the two houses.
gambler
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: hell fire On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:09 am

i 2 agree with RAY JAY you got bad coal with stokers you only have a limited time for coal to burn before it is pushed off end of grate into ash pan.
that makes buying good coal crucial. with hand fired where you can leave coal on grates for long time may not make as much differance.
but stone does not burn.
hell fire
 
Stove/Furnace Make: leisure line
Stove/Furnace Model: pioneer tv

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: steevesj On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:11 am

majortom6x wrote:Here are some pics of my 2nd ash removal from new LL Hearth stove. Is so much unburned coal (know it is coal as crushes ) normal?
Burning coal from Cornwall Supply in Cornwall,NY. Coal -trol max at 40 & Min at 6. Burning 1 to 2 inch thick line on grate at approx. 2-1/2 inches from end of grate.
Coal-Trol regulates to +/- 1 degree. Burned about 100 lbs in two days of 18-25 degree weather to heat 2000 sq ft.
Is it normal for fire blower fan to run at a constant speed or should it vary?
Can an adjustment of my Max setting somehow make the coal burn completely?

Any explanations for the unburned coal and possible fixes are appreciated. I hope it is as simple as adjusting the max setting.
Other than the unburned coal I am very happy with the LL Hearth & Coal-Trol combination.

P.S. Sieve pic blurry but that's a dime for size reference.


I do not have the Coal-trol but a Keystoker Ka-6 boiler. I am burning a load of coal I purchased from Steve at Cornwall Coal. He supplies a dealer north of hear and heard nothing but good things from him so I got 24 tons. When I first started burning last month I had a lot of unburned coal and I mean a lot. Many told me the coal is bad. Then I realized I did not have the small combustion blower intake open. Once I opened it the coal burned great. I have both blowers wide open now and there is very little unburned. This coal is very hard and shiny and needs lots of air. Some have said it may be from Jeddo's but I really don't know. If there is a way to increase your air I would do it. I believe you will see a huge difference.

I have been burning 60-70 pounds a day since it got colder last week in a 2000 sq foot house built in 1838. It has been around 12-16 at night and 20-26 during the day and very windy. Thermostat is at 67. I am burning buckwheat and have both air feeds wide open.
Jon

Here is a link to a discussion on it.
Pictures of ash and quality
steevesj
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA6 dual fuel using rice

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: majortom6x On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:20 am

After burning six bags the shale/rock content in the Cornwall bagged coal has improved very much.
In fact seeing very little rock in ash pan. Guess the rock content from bag to bag can vary considerably and that makes sense.
If this trend continues I would say I am very happy with Cornwall coal.
majortom6x
 

Re: Unburned Coal

PostBy: Pallmalled On: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:08 pm

Hey Major, Long tome getting back but here is my story. Was burning bagged Cornwall Coal prior to bulk delivery. I have alot more unburned "coal" in the pan now. I am thinking the quality is not so good. I still have a couple of bags and will try to do a comparison. Maybe the quality changed between what he was bagging and what he now delivered in bulk.
Pallmalled
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line
Stove/Furnace Model: Pioneer

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