Fight The Bush Pardons

Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:11 am

Please sign the petition sponsored by Congressman Jerrold Nadler to stop Bush's pardons of his fellow "Gang Members" (Bush has already commuted Scooter Libby's sentence & will undoubtedly be granting him a full pardon (to ensure his continued silence) b4 he slips out the Oval Office window. (Rumor has it that he (Bush) my pardon Cheney too!....like Ford pardoned Nixon:

....."......."Now, therefore, I, Gerald R. Ford, President of the United States, pursuant to the pardon power conferred upon me by Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, have granted and by these presents do grant a full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in during the period from July (January) 20, 1969, through August 9, 1974.
In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this eighth day of September, in the year of our Lord nineteen hundred and seventy-four, and of the Independence of the United States of America the one hundred and ninety-ninth."....
http://www.watergate.info/ford/pardon.shtml

Support Nadler Resolution on Bush Pardons | Democrats.com
http://www.democrats.com/nadler-pardons?
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:02 pm

I'll only support something of this nature if it's to change the constitutional powers granted to the President to prevent all future Presidents from issuing pardons. Otherwise it's just lip service form the Democrats. You can bet they won't be calling for this when Obama is about to leave office.

The issue is this is abused by all former Presidents. Here's complete 400+ listing of pardons issued by Clinton. Lots of nice people in there.


http://www.justice.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: samhill On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:15 pm

I agree with both of you, in that it should be stopped for both parties and stopped now. Instead of using past abuses of this power as justification. Both parties are guilty in past so we can only lookforward to stopping something that has gotten way out of hand.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:57 pm

I think all Presidential pardons should be done away with or at least require Senate approval.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:24 pm

No Senate approval or it just turns into another political football. Just eliminate them.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:16 pm

Richard S. wrote:No Senate approval or it just turns into another political football. Just eliminate them.


Well Richard....We finally agree on something political! The idea of allowing a political creature (a U.S. President) to be able to pardon anyone, for anything they may have done is just a prescription for problems! Doing away with the Presidential pardon authority would be just fine with me & would avoid many problems in the future.
Let's write our Congressmen to do it!
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: coalmeister On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:22 pm

Richard S. wrote:I'll only support something of this nature if it's to change the constitutional powers granted to the President to prevent all future Presidents from issuing pardons. Otherwise it's just lip service form the Democrats. You can bet they won't be calling for this when Obama is about to leave office.

The issue is this is abused by all former Presidents. Here's complete 400+ listing of pardons issued by Clinton. Lots of nice people in there.


http://www.justice.gov/pardon/clintonpardon_grants.htm


Look at the slimeballs on that list !!
Lets breakdown the lists after Bush is out and see if we can figure out why they pardoned each one. We know why Clinton pardoned most of his (cha-ching), lets start with Frank Rich...

Bush won't be pardoning Libby for money, as the witch hunt pretty much put him in debt for the rest of his life. They all knew the whole time it was Democrat Richard Armitage that "outed" Valerie Plame, what a disgrace, what scum, all of them.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:25 pm

coalmeister wrote:Look at the slimeballs on that list !!


So are you agreeing with Richard & I that Presidential pardons should be outlawed (through amendment) or do you want them to continue???

Keep in mind one thing:

Presidential Pardons: Legal Guidelines
From Title 28, Code of Federal Regulations


While Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution places no limitations on the president's power to grant or deny pardons

"He shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

http://usgovinfo.about.com/blprespardons.htm



Theoretically, A criminal President could issue himself & all his gang members a pardon & then go out & rob Fort Knox, knowing that, if caught, they would face no legal charges.

Think that's what the founding fathers wanted??
Last edited by Devil505 on Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: coalmeister On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:34 pm

Outlaw them! Or at least limit them to a very few to cover a few gross violations, not just for fund raising for your library or your wife's presidential run.
Last edited by coalmeister on Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:36 pm

coalmeister wrote:Outlaw them!


OK...We agree!! Outlaw them is right!!
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: coalkirk On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:35 pm

To date, Bush has pardoned 157, far fewer than any of his predesessors. Want to be outraged about a pardon? How about Marc Rich? Recommended for pardon by Eric Holder to Clinton. Rich is a swindler and traitor who among his crimes was doing deals with Iran in violation of US law. Who's Eric Holder? Obama's leading candidate for AG. Not cool.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:05 pm

coalkirk wrote:To date, Bush has pardoned 157, far fewer than any of his predesessors.


So ................you're in favor of continuing to allow these corrupt pardons because they are........ a tradition???
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:37 am

Pardons are a part of the system of checks and balances. The problem with them is that they are abused by the president at the end of his term when he/she/it won't face public scrutiny.

Perhaps the president could be limited in the last year of his term to three or four pardons maximum.

I personally think that political pardons may be acceptable because many talented people might not run in an atmosphere of retaliatory prosecutions (like the democrats will be setting up soon). Making the loyal opposition out to be criminals is a distasteful practice as old as the hills. Democrat lawmakers are good at it because so many of them are lawyers.

Stuff like this is crazy:

Pardoned:
Marc Rich, S. D. N. Y. 1984 superseding indictment Wire fraud, mail fraud, racketeering, racketeering conspiracy, criminal forfeiture, income tax evasion, and trading with Iran in violation of trade embargo, 18 U.S.C. §§ 1343, 1341, 1962(c), 1962(d), 1963, and 2; 26 U.S.C. § 7201, 50 U.S.C. § 1705, and 31 C.F.R. §§ 535.206(a)(4), 535.208 and 535.701

Cmon. Nothing this guy could have done after the fact would have merited a pardon. I guess money talks.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: coalkirk On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:37 am

Devil505 wrote:So ................you're in favor of continuing to allow these corrupt pardons because they are........ a tradition???

No, I didn't say that. I'm wondering where your outrage was when Clinton pardoned 456 criminals, including 16 FALN members responsible for 130 bombings in the US. You only seem to recently be concerned about pardons now that Bush is at bat. Clinton pardoned 120 alone on his last day in office. Were you outraged then or because he was a democrat, you were ok with it.
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Re: Fight The Bush Pardons

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:46 am

coalkirk wrote:No, I didn't say that. I'm wondering where your outrage was when Clinton pardoned 456 criminals, including 16 FALN members responsible for 130 bombings in the US. You only seem to recently be concerned about pardons now that Bush is at bat. Clinton pardoned 120 alone on his last day in office. Were you outraged then or because he was a democrat, you were ok with it.


I wasn't outraged with any of those pardons Terry because, right or wrong, they didn't effect me in any way. Bush's crimes have cost me allot of money & I demand my pound of flesh! I want the guy in prison....for life if possible, & I don't want him to be able to continue to hide incriminating evidence behind commutations & pardons of his "Gang". Bush has sleazed his way out of avoiding responsibility for ANYTHING his whole life & now it's personal!!

(Aside from that, I juts don't see how any Presidential pardons benefit this country, or ever have. They are nothing more than a useless perk begging for corruption!....(get rid of them!)
Last edited by Devil505 on Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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